THE solution for Darklight. - Page 6

Rayder · 2004-08-21, 01:37 AM

Originally Posted by Lonehunter187

BAD IDEA, and this is coming from a cloaker's prespective. About 5/10 times I'm in an enemy base I'm caught on DL. About 2/10 times I'm in an enemy base I'm killed because of DL. Just cuz you've been spotted doesn't mean you're dead, and if it does for you, then drop cloaking. Cloaking is about knowing how not to get caught and if you do, knowing how to deal with a problem and if you can't, knowing how to run away and live. Everything that your Stealth certs give you I can achieve with Implants and skill.

You obviously havn't met me in-game.

Cauldron Borne · 2004-08-21, 03:19 AM

LoneHunter is a pretty good cloaker, man. He's in my outfit, so i oughta know.

AND WHAT IS ALL THIS ABOUT CLOAKERS ONLY DOING WHAT INFANTRY DO??? I'm sorry bro but you are DEAD wrong. I'd like to see you TRY to sneak into a zerged vs base in yer rexo or agile armor, and drop the gens THREE TIMES. Tell ya what...you can't.

I can. Done it before, will do it again. dropped 27 generators in 2 hours. A personal best i plan on beating very soon. If you can drop 27 generators in OCCUPIED bases that fast in rexo... i'll give you a cookie, because that's damn good.

Can an agile have a tower from RIGHT behind an enemy max? no. couldn't even get into the room w/o being spotted.

Can a rexo sneak into an enemy courtyard, kill a loading ANT, hack a GAL and escape without anyone seeing him? only if the base was completely empty....

Can ANY grunt sneak into a warp bubble and hack an ams from under 30 ppl's noses? no.

Once again, sorry mate, but the Cloaker fills more roles than a grunt ever could. Why do people play cloaker support? because they can help their buddies while under fire and the enemy not be the wiser. Because they can sit in the basement and wait for those counter gen droppers to all leave, then revive his buddies and have them do it again. Because he can wreck havoc behind the enemy and distract them long enough for his grunt pals to make some progress.

BOO-FUCKING-YA!

(and before you make the post 'well if a cloaker can do all that, then why does dlv need a nerf' post, think about this:
You don't want the cloaker class to become the 'reavers of the infantry', but as of right now, Dark Light users are just that. You don't want a bunch of skill-less people running around w/ boomers, but Dark Light users are the equivilant of the skilless with the implant that gives them the opportunity to hunt down an entire pop of this game with near impunity)

ONCE AGAIN:

BOO-FUCKING-YA!

Lonehunter · 2004-08-21, 03:55 AM

Thank you CB

Originally Posted by Rayder

You obviously havn't met me in-game.

You might be one of those 2 out of 10 that kill me, never know. I'd say the hardest weapon to face up against as a cloaker is the Lasher, MCG and Jackhammer I can jump around, Lasher connects every shot as long as I'm on his screen. The other day I landed to take a NC tower, then heard my Skeeter blow up, stopped hacking, then saw a Rexo guy with a JH and DL falling from the sky, couldn't run, he was too close, so I charged, jumped, shot, reloaded, jumped some more and shot some more, and he went down (AMP by the way). Then he sends me a tell saying I'm a personal shield using noob, which would have uncloaked me... Amazing the tallent that rolls in now-a-days. In the end though funny as hell.

Boomer · 2004-08-21, 09:08 AM

Originally Posted by Warborn

Haha, ok. Yes, there are a couple occassions where a cloaker has been able to do something worthwhile. The odd tower here and there, an unoccupied vehicle hacked for kicks, and so on. But you're doing nothing that I haven't seen grunts do a million times. You really don't have any place in the game, similar to a sniper (and I'm a sniper myself, by the way). We're not necessary. We're just novelties, and we rarely make a significant difference, although snipers are meant to be infantry support, whereas cloakers are... well... I guess they're for the people who don't have the twitch required to grunt. Or they're there for the guys who love doing boomer runs and seeing the kill spam. But really, your role is that of a grunt, you're just very poorly equipped for the job, and so long as the role of cloakers overlaps with that of grunts, I doubt you'll ever be happy. Unless, of course, cloakers are made better at grunting than grunts, in which case I suspect you'd be just peachy.

You know I never see you on. You Missed lightning night, you are never there for the Gal drops we do daily, and, im just not sure when the last time it was you were on. Oh and by the way. Im making my infil character a Main character now just so I can get the chance to knife you in the face a few times.

Originally Posted by Warborn

Well, let's see. The infiltrators who try to boomer me die. The ones who setup spitfires die. The ones who try and knife me die. And the ones who use an AMP die. Maybe I'm just lucky, but there doesn't seem to be any cloaker who is at all good at killing infantry outside a spawn room. It's this that makes me wonder why you guys focus on trying to kill infantry so much. Sure, now and then a few have some limited success, but for the most part you're just bringing a knife to a gun fight, and it's really ridiculous. I never imagined cloakers would be executed so poorly, but maybe one of these days that'll change and they'll get to use their stealth for something effective more often.

again. A knife in the face would shut you up.

Boomer · 2004-08-21, 09:14 AM

Originally Posted by Lonehunter187

Thank you CB

You might be one of those 2 out of 10 that kill me, never know. I'd say the hardest weapon to face up against as a cloaker is the Lasher, MCG and Jackhammer I can jump around, Lasher connects every shot as long as I'm on his screen. The other day I landed to take a NC tower, then heard my Skeeter blow up, stopped hacking, then saw a Rexo guy with a JH and DL falling from the sky, couldn't run, he was too close, so I charged, jumped, shot, reloaded, jumped some more and shot some more, and he went down (AMP by the way). Then he sends me a tell saying I'm a personal shield using noob, which would have uncloaked me... Amazing the tallent that rolls in now-a-days. In the end though funny as hell.

Can i join liquid force? I want to be in an outfit that doesnt call you a "***" Everytime you screw up. I also want to be in an outfit with other cloakers.

_-Gunslinger-_ · 2004-08-21, 08:42 PM

We should all just put warborn on ignore. He seems to be unable to grasp the points made in this thread and has added virtually nothing construcive...ever.

While informing us that there are people opposing us he also showed us what type of willfull ignoreance we are up against.

BTW I still hold that making DL be tunnel visioned and adding a 10 stamina to activate. Oh and one more add, make Sensorshield and DL have the same activation time. They are both classes defense against the other why not have the same activation timer...

Cauldron Borne · 2004-08-22, 12:34 AM

Sure, Boomer. We would love for you to join. I like playing w/ other cloakers that know what they are doing. Send me a tell ingame, or just visit our website (link is under my name).

Warborn · 2004-08-22, 01:20 AM

I can never resist numerous provocational posts directed at me. Oh, Internet, you are a cruel mistress.

Originally Posted by Cauldron Borne

AND WHAT IS ALL THIS ABOUT CLOAKERS ONLY DOING WHAT INFANTRY DO??? I'm sorry bro but you are DEAD wrong. I'd like to see you TRY to sneak into a zerged vs base in yer rexo or agile armor, and drop the gens THREE TIMES. Tell ya what...you can't.

I can. Done it before, will do it again. dropped 27 generators in 2 hours. A personal best i plan on beating very soon. If you can drop 27 generators in OCCUPIED bases that fast in rexo... i'll give you a cookie, because that's damn good.

1) 27 times in two hours and you think an RExo couldn't do it? Haha, alright man, even if that wasn't all against one base. If you were fighting the Mongoloid Brigade or whatever enemy was stupid enough to allow their generator to be unprotected so much even after it was dropped that many times, I'm sure an unarmed RExo could walk in ram it with their head enough that it goes offline. Also, count-down until infiltrator talks about capping an enemy Sanctuary with a half-used 9mm clip and an REK. These are some big fish, guys. Big fish indeed.

2) Gens go down a lot. Then they go back up a minute later. If you can't hold the gen, you're not doing a hell of a lot. And as I said, what the hell kind of enemy allows their generator to go down so often? Who the hell are you people fighting to get these kinds of results which, in over a year of PS, I've never seen once (aside from hilariously effective boomer runs)? These stories you guys are writing here are really pretty hard to believe, and do nothing to help support the case for weaker darklight.

(and before you make the post 'well if a cloaker can do all that, then why does dlv need a nerf' post, think about this:
You don't want the cloaker class to become the 'reavers of the infantry', but as of right now, Dark Light users are just that. You don't want a bunch of skill-less people running around w/ boomers, but Dark Light users are the equivilant of the skilless with the implant that gives them the opportunity to hunt down an entire pop of this game with near impunity)

You know, back when I would play an infiltrator, if I had somewhere I wanted to go that enemies were, I'd use cover, I'd wait till they walked through a door before I opened it, I wouldn't go down a hall when someone else was coming down it too, I'd use jammer grenades, and so forth. The only time I ever really had a problem with Darklight was when I played the idiot and tried to get into a heavily occupied base to unhack the CC or drop the gen or otherwise cause the enemy problems. But, the rationale I always had was, why should a single little cloaker be able to cause such a substantial problem to the enemy when you could try the same thing with a squad or two of infantry and still probably fail?

As has been said, people don't usually turn on darklight unless there is a suspicion of an infiltrator nearby. The changes that have been proposed to Darklight in this thread will only make infiltrators better at killing grunts. As you've demonstrated yourself, it's easy for a cloaker to get down to kill a generator. As Boomer said earlier, it's very possible to take out a generator and then hack a CC during the confusion. The only thing I see wanting in this thread is for more cloaker success during combat. Stuff that makes darklight less useful, and thus cloakers in combat more successful. You do not want something to help you take out a gen, because it's clearly doable already (in my own experience as well as from cloaker testimonials in this thread).

That said though, I absolutely do agree that a cloaker is probably the most skill-demanding occupation in the game, and it's also the most frustrating while at the same time being probably the most exciting. I loved being an infiltrator, but I never felt like an infiltrator, because there really weren't that many things to do with myself as a cloaker apart from try to make a run on the gen or CC or spawn room, or just kill some doods. I've always felt that the solution is to add more stuff for infiltrators to do aside from attack the most critical areas of a base, not to make darklight worse. If you put stuff in that a couple stealthy individual could get to and hack or destroy to help further the fight somehow, and if these areas were apart from the normal routes taken by grunts in a base, things would probably improve. But what you guys are asking is either to be able to take out the most important sites on a base easier, which I don't agree with (you're one guy; Planetside is not about Rambo-like individuals), or being able to run around killing people with more ease, which again I don't agree with because I never imagined that being why you'd want to get into a suit with no armor and crap inventory/holsters.

Despite all the mean and nasty things you guys have directed toward me, the reality is that I'm just basing what I'm saying off of my old cloaker experience in Beta. This is how I felt. I never wanted to see DL change, because even grunts can randomly die from reaver spam or tank shells or sniper fire or other stuff that comes out of nowhere and gives me a free trip back to a spawn point. But I do think infiltrators should be able to impact fights in a way that is easier to impliment without making them better at taking out gens or infantry. Maybe that's not how you see cloakers, but that's how I see them.

Originally Posted by Boomer

You know I never see you on. You Missed lightning night, you are never there for the Gal drops we do daily, and, im just not sure when the last time it was you were on. Oh and by the way. Im making my infil character a Main character now just so I can get the chance to knife you in the face a few times.

Easy there, skippy. I joined the Outfit about three or four days ago.

again. A knife in the face would shut you up.

INTERNET IS SERIOUS BUSINESS

We should all just put warborn on ignore. He seems to be unable to grasp the points made in this thread and has added virtually nothing construcive...ever.

Hi there, welcome to the forums. I hope you enjoy your stay!

Rayder · 2004-08-22, 04:34 AM

Tactics, the right weapon, and an intelligent person is what you need to be a cloaker. Just grab a pistol, get outside, stay out of DL range, and beat your enemies down. And don't say the pistols suck or that they're not good enough to kill anyone that isn't already hurt, because they are, and with the new DD stats they're even better.

If you want to sneak inside of a base, you're going to need a few implants and the right arsenal to do it. Implants I would suggest would be Sensor Shield, Surge, and Meele Booster/Dark Light. A good arsenal would be dependent on the situation. If there are a lot of Motion Sensors, then a pistol/grenades would be your best bet. If there aren't, then anything would work really, pistol, grenades, the CE thingy. Also, a REK is the most important tool for sneaking into a base and staying there, so if you plan to harrass the enemy, get one. Advanced Hacking is by far the most useful cert for an infiltrator that wants to get inside a base, it allows one to replenish their stock of harassment tools

Tactics also vary depending on the situation. I personally like hacking an enemy Equipment Terminal, getting the CE thingy, and planting mines outside of doors where unsuspecting enemies will trod right over them. If you're in a zerg and you want to infiltrat, use a pistol and rape guys on the walls/inside the entrances. And if you do get inside, find the AMS and hack/target/destroy it.

Madcow · 2004-08-22, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by Warborn

As has been said, people don't usually turn on darklight unless there is a suspicion of an infiltrator nearby.

GOOD GOD YOU ARE THE MOST OBTUSE PERSON HERE. That's the point. People do turn on Dark Light when they have no suspicions. That's our whole freaking point, bud. Once again, thanks for not paying attention. They should take the internet away and force you to spend some time on reading comprehension.

That said though, I absolutely do agree that a cloaker is probably the most skill-demanding occupation in the game, and it's also the most frustrating while at the same time being probably the most exciting. I loved being an infiltrator, but I never felt like an infiltrator, because there really weren't that many things to do with myself as a cloaker apart from try to make a run on the gen or CC or spawn room, or just kill some doods. I've always felt that the solution is to add more stuff for infiltrators to do aside from attack the most critical areas of a base, not to make darklight worse. If you put stuff in that a couple stealthy individual could get to and hack or destroy to help further the fight somehow, and if these areas were apart from the normal routes taken by grunts in a base, things would probably improve. But what you guys are asking is either to be able to take out the most important sites on a base easier, which I don't agree with (you're one guy; Planetside is not about Rambo-like individuals), or being able to run around killing people with more ease, which again I don't agree with because I never imagined that being why you'd want to get into a suit with no armor and crap inventory/holsters.

The fact that you never imagined it doesn't make it any less valid. From the evidence I've been able to gather, you're a short-sighted human being without much ability for free thought or imagination. Your points have zero validity and don't address what we've actually asked for. Please go outside, find a rock approximately 6 inches in diameter and smash your skull against it a half dozen times. I'm hoping it will jar something loose.

Despite all the mean and nasty things you guys have directed toward me, the reality is that I'm just basing what I'm saying off of my old cloaker experience in Beta. This is how I felt. I never wanted to see DL change, because even grunts can randomly die from reaver spam or tank shells or sniper fire or other stuff that comes out of nowhere and gives me a free trip back to a spawn point. But I do think infiltrators should be able to impact fights in a way that is easier to impliment without making them better at taking out gens or infantry. Maybe that's not how you see cloakers, but that's how I see them.

Great, that's how you see them. I guess that's the way it should be then. Everybody, stop playing how you have fun and start playing how Warborn thinks it should be played, okay? Mmmmkay.

So your cloaker experience is in Beta then? Allow me to fix you a nice warm glass of shut the fuck up. Seriously. You haven't played infil since beta, you know jack shit about infil. Your viewpoint is beyond invalid. You're trying to protect your grunt ass because you keep getting knifed and it's frustrating. Beta. As if nothing in the game has changed since then, as if people's playstyles haven't adapted. Moron. No wonder people say mean and nasty things about you, you're an uneducated troll trying to pretend he knows what he's talking about.

Boomer · 2004-08-22, 12:10 PM

warborn is on my ignore list. And I will go to your website Cauldron Borne, and try to send you /tells ingame.

Queensidecastle · 2004-08-22, 12:17 PM

GOOD GOD YOU ARE THE MOST OBTUSE PERSON HERE. That's the point. People do turn on Dark Light when they have no suspicions. That's our whole freaking point, bud. Once again, thanks for not paying attention. They should take the internet away and force you to spend some time on reading comprehension

I want to expand on this point a bit. Yesterday I was plying my cloaker and I still caught myself doing quick mouse flick 360 degree Darklight sweeps. I rarely need to do this as an Infil but even then I was doing it because it is a valuable tactic. Another thing that any smart player does is turn on DL whenever they hear an infiltrator weapon fire. Also, any smart player will do darklight sweeps around consoles, terminals and other chokepoints because why the hell not, it takes no skill, effort, and has no downside. Not to mention that everyone has experienced ghost hacking and has furthermore found and killed Infils doing said DL sweeps.

It is a common technique because it works and everybody knows it. The problem that I dont think is sinking in with folks on this thread is that there is so much Infil kill-whoring precisely because of the Darklight problem. Why bother spending 30 min actually infiltrating just to get nailed by a random DL sweep? So Madcow, myself and others have adapted our playstyles accordingly. I take the extremely agressive kill-whoring Infil role and hack terminals and vehicles when the opportunity presents itself, not the other way around. You have Darklight to thank for that

Finally, I am always amused when a cloaker gets a hate tell from a player in Rexo/HA/DL acting like they are leet because they killed the cloaker. Its just ridiculous. Also for the above poster having no luck when being discovered by said grunt: You might want to look into the Spiker. I can defeat Rexo/HA/DL grunts about 50% or more of the time in a straight fight.

PS: The Lasher is by FAR the most annoying and hardest to deal with enemy weapon in my experience.

Madcow · 2004-08-22, 01:30 PM

The Lasher is the most annoying in confined spaces. Out in the open, I'll take the Lasher over the MCG 10 times out of 10. Pop into 3rd person (make sure you've dragged the view back) and dodge the orbs as you run away.

Cauldron Borne · 2004-08-22, 02:57 PM

WarBorn: congrates on ignoring all my other points.

AND: it was not the same base, it was spread over three continents. I SERIOUSLY doubt they were all guarded by the stupid brigade, because four of the bases I attacked were guarded by C22 tags....you wanna call C22 stupid, then i guess you need to play more.

(PS: gonna break my record next Saturday. Look me up about 8am PST[11am est], boomer, if you'd like to join me)

Meursault00 · 2004-08-22, 03:36 PM

You guys take this game way to seriously. I can't wait for the next Ask the Developers when we can finally get some opinions that matter.

Frankly, we're all too biased toward infiltrating or grunting.