PS2 requires level grind? - Page 3

EisenKreutzer · 2012-07-18, 06:57 PM

Originally Posted by Shadows

20% boost in power can be more influential than you realize.

Oh no I agree, 20% is massive. But considering this is between a superpimp and a total newb, it's very low.
Compare it to Call of Duty, where during the first 20 or so levels, a player with a level advantage will absolutely slaughter you with better kill streaks, better weapons, better attachments and better perks.

Accuser · 2012-07-18, 07:27 PM

Originally Posted by EisenKreutzer

I believe they have discussed doing some form of cert "respec," at some point, but I don't know anything concrete. It sort of doesn't matter, since you get an unlimited amount of certs over time, but time will tell if it becomes a feature or not.

Actually, Higby has said on several occasions that there would not be any kind of cert respec in PS2. However, I fully expect that to chance once SoE realizes how much money people would pay for the service...

WorldOfForms · 2012-07-18, 07:53 PM

A beginning PS1 player could easily cert REXO and HA, putting them on an even playing field with high-level players. The only real difference would be with Personal Shield, but that crappy implant is its own debate.

Also, at some point PS1 had an update that gave new characters a full week where they could recert at will, essentially giving you every cert you could want as long as you went to a recert terminal. So no, new players did not have any significant disadvantage, and with free recerts had an advantage over any player that wasn't BR40.

SFJake · 2012-07-18, 08:09 PM

Originally Posted by QuantumMechanic

Just FYI. The last I heard about about this (I don't remember the source) they were suggesting that this might be functionality for premium subscribers / cash shop item only. Not free for everybody.

It makes sense, as they've already stated that XP boosters will be cash shop items.

Are you kidding me?

If it just needs me to have spent money on the game, I'd happily give 60$ in, get that benefit and other bonuses.

If I need to pay a subscription to get something that just makes the game less tedious and doesn't require me to waste my life on it, thats bullshit.

GreatMazinkaise · 2012-07-18, 08:29 PM

Originally Posted by SFJake

Are you kidding me?

If it just needs me to have spent money on the game, I'd happily give 60$ in, get that benefit and other bonuses.

If I need to pay a subscription to get something that just makes the game less tedious and doesn't require me to waste my life on it, thats bullshit.

That's "buy the box" thinking... doesn't apply well to a sub game that got an F2P sequel. This is not to say that a +% xp increase for having spent some money on the game (like Tribes:Ascend). Continuous monetization is the goal, after all.

Rat · 2012-07-18, 10:31 PM

Try to look at that 20% in eve terms....say you are specing bullet penitration...the vet player has that spec up to lvl 5 for the full 20%....Mr. noob will be initially be un speced...but should be able to train it to lvl 3 in a matter of a cpl hours...bringing the power diff down to only 8%....to get to lvl 4 or 5 would take some dedication, but it wont take too much to reduce that 20%.
This is the way I envision it anyway.

SgtExo · 2012-07-18, 11:23 PM

The hundred off specs that you can get is more about playstyle than power. So it should not take too long to get the equipment you like and that you are good with, what will take allot of time is unlocking alternate ways off playing. You could start off focusing on infantry combat for the first week, then start spec into a vehicle that you like the week after. Then if you have found a group of ppl that you like playing with, you start to spec into the leadership trees. And because everything is piece meal and just playstyle options, it wont be a big xp sink to try out the first lvl of whatever you feel like playing at the moment. This is why I approve what SOE is doing with the character customization with PS2.

GreatMazinkaise · 2012-07-19, 12:46 AM

Originally Posted by SgtExo

The hundred off specs that you can get is more about playstyle than power. So it should not take too long to get the equipment you like and that you are good with, what will take allot of time is unlocking alternate ways off playing. You could start off focusing on infantry combat for the first week, then start spec into a vehicle that you like the week after. Then if you have found a group of ppl that you like playing with, you start to spec into the leadership trees. And because everything is piece meal and just playstyle options, it wont be a big xp sink to try out the first lvl of whatever you feel like playing at the moment. This is why I approve what SOE is doing with the character customization with PS2.

There is a place where power comes in... unless stock toons come with newb weapon attachments and beginner certs to put into all those customization slots then a character that has unlocked stuff for all those slots will be inherently better than a stock toon. How much better remains to be seen...

SgtExo · 2012-07-19, 01:10 AM

Originally Posted by GreatMazinkaise

There is a place where power comes in... unless stock toons come with newb weapon attachments and beginner certs to put into all those customization slots then a character that has unlocked stuff for all those slots will be inherently better than a stock toon. How much better remains to be seen...

It is true that a fully certed tree will be more powerful then a uncerted newb, but the way I understand it is that certing 1 tree wont take too much time. The thing that will take allot of time is getting all the different playstyles that you like to play. And with the ability to gain certs while logged off, the difference between someone that plays 2 and 10 hours a day will not be that different. I hope the certs work like that because I usually become bored before I reach the end the skill trees in MMOs or multiplayer games with lvls because the grind at high lvls.

Vydofnir · 2012-07-19, 02:51 AM

Originally Posted by SFJake

Problem I have is that they said it would pretty much take 3 years to get everything.

Which to me, means unlocking things will take quite a lot of time... which means I'm scared boosters will pretty much be a necessity and will probably boost the speed you get things up -excessively-. Which is something I despise in F2P games. Annoying incentives for a FREE game which makes you spend more than a normal one.

And I doubt they would pass yet another opportunity for a way with CASH to respend your points. *sigh*

When they say it would take 3 years to unlock every cert, I think that they are referring more to the number of certs, rather than the length of time it takes to unlock a single cert. They have stated on multiple occasions that player progression is much more about versatility than power, so I doubt that there will bee too many certs that require an excessively long time to unlock.

The thing that I find most intriguing about PS2, is that SOE seems to have adopted the philosophy that more players equate to more content. If that is indeed their take on the F2P model, it would be in their best interest to make sure that all players are having as much fun as possible, even those that aren't paying for anything. Forcing players to grind seems to undermine this.

Noivad · 2012-07-19, 03:22 AM

1. There is no grind - Everyone can train certs 24 hrs a day, even when you are not playing. You just need to make sure you have something in the Training que to get trained so the training does not stop.

2. There will be a training bonus for people who actually play in that they will get certs a bit faster as a reward for actively playing. Not stated how much yet.

3. If work, family or other Real Life events prevent you from playing as much as you want to, you can buy an xp time bonus to speed up your time to get certs. 2x, 3x 4x or more. who knows till we actually see it as it is not stated yet.

4. We have been told cert system was modeled on eve. Eve has certs that take only 8 mins, and some that take 30 days to achieve. It was stated it might take a year to fully spec out a galaxy.

5. You can only cert/spec one thing at one time in one class at a time. So you must choose wisley. Eve does NOT have respecing. Once you train it its forever.

6. In other games I have played with similar systems, for a rifle as an example you might cert the following - Barrel, sights, triger, front hand grip, left rail, right rail, stock, with different selections for each one that change things like accuracy, spread, recoil, triger pull, sights, ect. You don't get to try before you cert it, and once certed you have it for keeps. Up to you if you use it or change it to something else.

7. In eve as an example you have missles, and there are 5 or 6 launchers that effect missle flight, and there are several different missles, all with their own set of specs. In eve there is a market that you can sell if you don't like something but there is no player market in Planetside 2.

So in BETA try everything and find out what you like, so at release when all things get reset back to zero, you know what you want to cert right off the bat.

PS. I have been playing eve online now for over 5 years and will never have everything trained because they keep adding new stuff to get. I suspect PS 2 will be the same.

Arcticus · 2012-07-19, 03:51 AM

I've seen the word "grind" used in two different contexts:

1). Where the normal gameplay yields infrequent/insufficient character progression. The main problem of an --FPS--

2). Where there is the expectation of doing boring tasks in order to get a semblance of character progression. The main problem of an --MMO--

Regarding item #1 (insufficient progression), it looks as if SOE is aware of the need for people to see progression and are going all out trying to make an extensive certification & class system. Which is the main discussion of this thread.

Regarding item #2 (boring tasks), we don't need to do repetitive fed ex/kill 10 thistle pigs quests. We each have the choice of playing mindlessly, tactically, or strategically. The interdependencies between the various classes are excellent.

What the game asks us to do repeatedly is to kill enemy players, which is what we find fun and exciting. The thing is that there's a thousand ways to skin an enemy in this game....including being a human cannonball (drop pod).

Will the battlefield get boring? The landscape seems varied and beautifully immersive. The bases are huge. Hopefully the capture mechanism doesn't get old. Maybe we could use a few additional base types but at least there will be variety even among bases of the same type.

I'm thinking this won't feel like a grind.