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Old 2013-01-08, 01:43 AM   [Ignore Me] #1
Rothnang's Avatar
Remove Resource System, implement Logistics System

Repost from the official board since there nobody ever reads or answers to idea threads.

Problem with the Resource System

The current resource system is awful. It utterly fails at restricting vehicles, which is what its primary function should be, but worse than that, if your faction is outnumbered and you start getting pushed back you just get weaker and weaker, eventually you're shut into the warpgate with no resources while you have hundreds of tanks and aircraft bearing down on you and killing them doesn't do anything because your opponent will have such insane resource ticks.

Where the entire metagame really fails is that when you push someone to the warpgate it becomes easy to keep them locked up in it. Most of the players on the other team will just log off or go to another continent at that time, because they already know how pointless and frustrating it is to try and break out of a warpgate against superior numbers. You'll make a little push, take a few facilities maybe, and then just instantly get pushed back to the gate.

The game shouldn't get easier and easier the more territory you control, it should get harder to hold on to it all, and pushing the front line of the war all the way to your opponents front door should be a serious challenge. The resource system also doesn't do anything to genuinely limit the number of vehicles people deploy.

Logistics System

I think we should get rid of the resource system, and instead implement a logistics system that simulates the flow of consumables from the warp gate and various factories to the front lines. Interrupting the flow of resources to the enemy army would make it difficult to keep an army well supplied if your front line is far away from your bases.

Vehicle ammunition should be a primary concern with keeping an army supplied, but right now it's very easy to do so. Ammo towers are everywhere, and since you can combine AMS and Ammo Boxes on a Sunderer they aren't very rare either. This would serve to give Infantry a more solid standing in the game, since it would be able to operate without having to worry too much about the supply line.

Essentially how this would work is that bases would have a limited amount of "logistics points" (Since we're trying to talk about something other than resources right now), which are used to replenish vehicle ammunition and resupply infantry items that currently cost resources. Bases take delivery of new logistics points from the warpgate through automated cargo drones. Sunderers with the Ammo carrier addon and possibly Galaxies can carry a number of logistics points themselves, and withdraw them from bases that have them on hand, or from the warpgate. They can also deposit logistics points at bases that are low, after picking them up from a base that had high points, and get some XP for that.

The rules for cut-off territory would still apply, if the territory is cut off from the warpgate no cargo drones are sent there, which means the remaining logistics points of all those bases are going to get eaten up pretty rapidly if a large army operates in the cut off area. However, as an alternative to trying to cut off enemy territory, you can also destroy the cargo drones to wage a guerrilla war on enemies behind the front lines. Destroyed cargo drones leave behind a remnant of logistics points that can be collected by vehicles that can carry logistics point and then distributed to the troops, or deposited at a base. Destroying these types of vehicles would also leave behind their logistics points.

Cargo drones would have particularly strong armor against air units and mines, but not so much against attacks from the ground. (Imagine some kind of hovering truck that's heavily armored on its body, but has a vulnerable hover-engine underneath that is easy to hit for ground troops, but impossible to hit for aircraft without landing in front of it) Aircraft can still kill the drones, but not very quickly, so defending them against air attacks is easier than defending them from commando teams of infantry on the ground.

The map would show you where you have logistics points available and where they are running low and are desperately needed. It would also show you a "raid marker" if a cargo drone was destroyed in a location for a few minutes, meaning if an enemy wants to raid your supply lines they have to keep moving, since you will find them very easily otherwise.

Since this would combine all three resources into a single unit, the operating cost of vehicles would be adjusted to reflect their relative availability. Aircraft would be very expensive to restock, so if you have an overly large airfleet operating on a continent you will very rapidly deplete the logistics points at all airpads, and be forced to restock at the warp gate every single time you're out of ammo. Particularly missiles, rockets and Liberator shells would be very expensive to restock.

Holding certain bases around the map would improve the potency of your logistics points, allowing your cargo drones to carry more of them at any given point in time. This offsets the extreme distances a cargo drone has to travel to reach a base deep in enemy territory somewhat, but supplying a base that far away from your warp gate should still be very difficult if you have nobody protecting your hinterlands.

Vehicle terminals would work the same way as they do now, sans the resource cost. The vehicle timer remains however. Spawning a vehicle costs the base where it is being spawned logistics points for its first set of ammo. If there aren't enough logistics points for the ammo available the vehicle spawns without ammo.


With a system like that in place we would see a dramatic shift in the way the metagame is played. If your faction is outnumbered and pushed into a corner you can go to a guerrilla warfare type strategy where you break apart into a lot of small units that operate deep in enemy territory raiding their cargo drones. That will force the enemy to redeploy a lot of his army to protect the supply lines, and make a break out from the gate easier. If the enemies lose too many cargo drones and don't keep the supplies flowing manually with Sunderers or Galaxies you'll also have an easy time breaking their hold on your gate when all their vehicles run out of ammo. Vehicles operating near the gate will be very easy to supply by comparison.

Also this will introduce a real limiting effect to vehicles. If there are too many vehicles operating in the same area the amout of logistics points they will suck out of the nearby stations will quickly overwhelm the automatic supply chain and force them to either pace their vehicle deployment, or start running Sunderer or Galaxy Convoys to keep their large vehicle army supplied. Either way, a vehicle army that's too big will quickly become a logistical nightmare, sending people scrambling for ammo, which strengthens infantry.

Organized outfits will be able to have Sunderers and Galaxies to supply their own troops (They will have a "platoon only" supply option), so they won't lose much effectiveness overall, other than needing to run their own supply chain. Smaller outfits will be a lot more effective since they will be very effective supply raiders.

Galaxies will have a lot more use as supply runners for outfits, since they can more quickly make a trip from the warp gate out to the front lines, allowing Galaxy pilots to focus on flying their routes with ordnance for the troops on board instead of trying to find the one infantryman who doesn't know about drop pods.
Rothnang is offline  
Old 2013-01-08, 03:06 AM   [Ignore Me] #2
Re: Remove Resource System, implement Logistics System

I like it, it's just that libs or galaxies carrying logistics points would be exremely boring. so long as its automated it would be ok. perhaps something a little more armored than a gal with mannable turrets and a spawn point with warnings whenever it's being attacked. just so long as there doesnt have to be a dedicated driver cracking his head against the wall. could have a spawn pad for it next to all the major bases and have it spawn automatically.
adaroe is offline  
Old 2013-01-08, 03:30 AM   [Ignore Me] #3
Rothnang's Avatar
Re: Remove Resource System, implement Logistics System

It wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea to be a Galaxy logistics pilot, but there are people who enjoy that sort of thing, and if the XP is good enough it would be worth it. The reason why the system allows for manual transport is because it would be near impossible to create an automated system that is smart enough to supply the right places at the right times. The automated system is there so that the game keeps rolling even if nobody takes charge of logistics, but if you really need supplies somewhere specific you have the option of moving them yourself.

Besides, if the enemy is really trying to shut down your logistics you'll see plenty of action while trying to run supplies to the front.

Your post does give me an idea for the cargo drones though, they could have a powerful turret on top that people can get into. The drone still follows its course as it otherwise would, but you can tag along and defend it.

Last edited by Rothnang; 2013-01-08 at 03:32 AM.
Rothnang is offline  
Old 2013-01-14, 08:34 PM   [Ignore Me] #4
Re: Remove Resource System, implement Logistics System

THat is certainly something that bears investigation. As it stands now, the game comes down to zerging over a continent with no real desire to actually hold territory. There is no incentive to do anything else, because the point is to get kill xp. My only concern with this system is the potential for griefing. A few people sitting at an ammo tower just burning ammo to deplete the logistics points. A possible way to solve that would be to have a cooldown on resupply. So, if your tank has been rearmed, you must wait a specific amount of time before the tower will tick for you again.

The end result will be to force people to actually think and plan before just going out to zerg for kills. Deaths would count for something and losing vehicles will be felt across the frontlines. Fewer people will be willing to risk losing their tank or plane and they will modify their tactics accordingly. Smaller outfits would be able to participate in the wider war in a more significant way, raiding convoys and causing the other side(s) to redeploy resources to deal with them. It would also make defending bases much more important because that is where your logistics supply is coming from. Losing a major base (eg: Zurvan), would mean the loss of a significant resource pool and jeopardize operations across that sector.
Vertigo is offline  
Old 2013-01-16, 04:12 AM   [Ignore Me] #5
Messatsu's Avatar
Re: Remove Resource System, implement Logistics System

I think it's a great Idea, 2 days ago I was thinking about something similar, but more utopian... I was thinking about having depletable ressources. I was thinking how it would be awesome if we gathered ressources from continents, than those ressources would be carried to tech plants,which acted as factories. Which means, if you carried enough ressources to your tech plant, there would be a tank production until there is no more ressources in the tech plant. So you have limited tanks in reserve. Now from the tech plant, dropships would bring tanks to bases that have tank points. Which means, You would be able to spawn more tanks from the tech plants than the tank stations, because if you brought 12 tanks to a tower, then you are limited to those 12 tanks... But anyway you idea seems more proffessional ^^
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