Mattherson Alerts: Why NC/TR are so Bad, Bad, Bad...

typhaon · 2013-07-25, 02:36 PM

Pfft. I wrote this long post, but really... it's easy.

TR and NC spend far too much of their efforts fighting each other in these things... when simply looking at the population totals and the objectives should logically dictate ----> GO FIGHT VS.

Even if there are OP-issues with VS gear/vehicles.... even if they do have a significant population advantage... world populations typically aren't worse than 40/30/30... in that ballpark.

The only way 40 VS are going to wipe out 30 TR and NC in Dominating Victory after Dominating Victory is if 15 TR and NC just can't resist going to fight each other... even though it makes no tactical sense.

Let's even assume noob-ness/general stupidity affects 5 out of the 30 on each side... they just can't resist battling the weaker side... 40 VS should not roll up 25 NC and 25 TR...

If VS shifts its forces to one front - the other should lose ground fast... and so on. Most of these alerts should be ending in draws or very close to it.

Last alert on Esamir was typical example of bad NC/TR tactics.

We can blame this on a lack of leadership - but I see it as just plain logic. I can't see how people can look at the map... look at population numbers.... look at the objectives... then decide the best plan is to not attack the strongest faction.

CraazyCanuck · 2013-07-25, 03:15 PM

While most of your post is filled with humourous statements, I will answer one..people may avoid the alert objectives and the hard fights during an alert to ride the gravy train, knowing that easy xp return and very opposition is waiting at non-objective outposts and they may/may not be staying on for the full alert, so in turn give two shits about who wins it. Faction objectives be damned...its all about personal xp for some.

DOUBLEXBAUGH · 2013-07-25, 03:44 PM

I logged into my NC on Indar the other day while an alert was on Amerish. The VS only had 15% pop on Indar yet owned about 80% of it, and they were ghosting the few territories the NC owned because the NC would rather fight the TR (who were stuck at their WG) then fight the VS.

typhaon · 2013-07-25, 04:37 PM

Originally Posted by CraazyCanuck

While most of your post is filled with humourous statements, I will answer one..people may avoid the alert objectives and the hard fights during an alert to ride the gravy train, knowing that easy xp return and very opposition is waiting at non-objective outposts and they may/may not be staying on for the full alert, so in turn give two shits about who wins it. Faction objectives be damned...its all about personal xp for some.

Can you clarify what was humorous?

I agree... a lot of what I do in the game is about personal XP - but you're not going to find better personal XP than in a big pitched battle and with the alert bonus.

Having said that... yeah - given a choice between a challenging fight where you'll earn more XP... and an easier fight where you'll earn less XP... a lot of people will choose the easier fight - just cuz.

I'd assume just as many VS aren't going to stay for the duration of an alert as any other faction, so that should be a wash. It's simply undeniable the behavior of TR/NC.

I do think the discrepancy is a combination of people being timid and not understanding how the alerts work.

typhaon · 2013-07-25, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by DOUBLEXBAUGH

I logged into my NC on Indar the other day while an alert was on Amerish. The VS only had 15% pop on Indar yet owned about 80% of it, and they were ghosting the few territories the NC owned because the NC would rather fight the TR (who were stuck at their WG) then fight the VS.

In the extreme late hours weird things happen... ghostcapping is a pretty worthless endeavor when it comes to generating XP - I can see why people preferred to fight.

My concerns are really about people who appear to show up for an alert... then act illogically.

ShadoViper · 2013-07-25, 10:30 PM

Reason?

Huge VS population inflation at night time from what i've seen. I don't even bother logging on when I see the numbers sometimes.

/fun

wasdie · 2013-07-25, 11:31 PM

Originally Posted by ShadoViper

Reason?

Huge VS population inflation at night time from what i've seen. I don't even bother logging on when I see the numbers sometimes.

/fun

Primetime has been going to the VS for quite some time now. They've got some massive outfits that are damn near impossible to fight against. Most people just quit or went to other servers. TR is MIA right now thanks to TE folding and NC hasn't had a large outfit since Goon disbanded months ago.

You cannot beat large outfits right now with multiple smaller ones. Numbers take all in this game.

It's one of those problems that is self perpetuating. One side starts getting the numbers and the open outfits grow, the other factions get a bit weaker, weaker factions start bleeding numbers to server transfers, rage quits, and fourth faction. Overpopulated faction continues to grow and continues to demoralize underpop factions leading to continued rage quitting, server transfers, or 4th factioning.

There is really nothing they can do about that other than direct new players to the underpoped factions. The game also needs some work fixing some extremely exploitable spawning mechanics that large outfits can use to give themselves a massive, uncounterable advantage.

Vashyo · 2013-07-26, 12:05 AM

For some reason I feel NC is getting the short straw on alerts at Woodman, nearly everytime I happen to play on an alert it just feels like both sides want to just push us to the warpgate instead of fighting each other. We also have the lowest pop nowadays. :/

Just yesterday we held like 14% of hte map on indar alert and VS was leading with 45%, there were lot of big battles happening in pretty much all our hexes where we had less people in every fight compared to the enemy and there was only one big battle happening on the far right side of the map between TR/VS at biolab.

But yeah you cant win alerts in this game when u have both sides breathing down on your neck...

capiqu · 2013-07-26, 12:19 AM

Frustrates me too. 40- 48% vs pop and NC and TR are going at it. VS up all night taking Amerish, Indar and Esamir benefits. But VS suck worse with all their OP they still need 3 to 1 to take a facility.

Mordelicius · 2013-07-26, 02:34 AM

NC and TR avoid Vanu in Waterson as well.

Surprised? Don't be. Nobody wants to fight an OP faction. NC and TR are a great match. That's they both seek out each other.

The worst part of testing out the new Esamir bases in Waterson? The continent is 40% Vanu and you have to fight them.

Shamrock · 2013-07-26, 05:33 AM

Originally Posted by Mordelicius

NC and TR avoid Vanu in Waterson as well.

Surprised? Don't be. Nobody wants to fight an OP faction. NC and TR are a great match. That's they both seek out each other.

The worst part of testing out the new Esamir bases in Waterson? The continent is 40% Vanu and you have to fight them.

The argument that VS is OP is total BS, when any faction reaches 40% pop it becomes a problem, we have had to put up with TR having 40% pop on Miller for 6 months until the recent recommended server patch, but hey I could post something hysterical and nonsensical and say it was because TR was OP.

And yes I agree with the OP that its frustrating when the two out-poped factions fail to see the advantage of giving their full attention to the highest pop faction, this always occurred in PS1 and acted as a natural balancing check, this doesn't seem to have happened in PS2, player behavior may change in time as more outfits get established and can push their members towards objective play as apposed to 100% farming for certs.

CrimsonTemplar · 2013-07-26, 05:34 AM

Originally Posted by Vashyo

But yeah you cant win alerts in this game when u have both sides breathing down on your neck...

A problem for TR a lot of the time on Mattherson. Since the server recommendations, it appears to have been mitigated slightly, which is better than nothing. Low-pop now seems to fluctuate at prime-time, between the TR and NC on different days. We usually hold our own and repel several attacks at a time but eventually you're overwhelmed.

Anyway our outfit and pretty much the whole of ULTRA, hardly give two shits about Alerts. If they happen on the continent we're currently fighting on or it's global, then sometimes but really it just isn't worth it from our point of view. Fight a good fight where we are now at that point in time and fulfill our own objectives. Besides with the new intercontinental gubbins, due to roll out to pasture, Alerts are going to take a backseat anyway.

Bocheezu · 2013-07-26, 09:26 AM

It just gets boring fighting the same faction over and over and over again. I could go the rest of my life without seeing a ZOE MAX ever again.

WSNeo · 2013-07-26, 09:40 AM

Originally Posted by typhaon

Even if there are OP-issues with VS gear/vehicles.

Mordelicius · 2013-07-27, 04:37 PM

Originally Posted by Shamrock

The argument that VS is OP is total BS, when any faction reaches 40% pop it becomes a problem, we have had to put up with TR having 40% pop on Miller for 6 months until the recent recommended server patch, but hey I could post something hysterical and nonsensical and say it was because TR was OP.

And yes I agree with the OP that its frustrating when the two out-poped factions fail to see the advantage of giving their full attention to the highest pop faction, this always occurred in PS1 and acted as a natural balancing check, this doesn't seem to have happened in PS2, player behavior may change in time as more outfits get established and can push their members towards objective play as apposed to 100% farming for certs.

TR is overpopulated in Waterson (Yesterday they got 47% pop after winning an alert and we still kept fighting them). You wont' see anyone begging players to fight the TR. NC naturally gravitates against the TR and vice versa.

Two days ago we lost a 3 continent Tech Plant alert. NC was leading with 4 the last 15 minutes. Do you know what happened? TR and NC was obliterating each other in the western Tech plant which NC holds. What's the Vanu doing? Vanu is capping an empty Mekala Tech plant with a full platoon. TR has about 42% Pop and NC about 36% in the Amerish continent.

We eventually lost both the last 15 minutes.

What can you do? TR and NC fights are fun and relatively balanced. So, yeah the OP can keep begging, no matter how good natured the intention is. Players simply follow what's fun for them.