NPC's in planetside? - Page 9

Sirisian · 2012-02-20, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by TheBladeRoden

If they can't even render weapons without killing the player count, what are NPC's gonna do?

You're assuming NPCs are as costly as rendering multiple models on a player and that they exist near fights. As others have discussed having creature near bases wouldn't be likely as turrets and mines would kill them so they'd be in the regions between bases. So the overall performance worry is very much exaggerated.

Originally Posted by SniperSteve

I don't like people who want PvE. >.>

How do you envision PvE being implemented? If you say deer then most of us are with you. That's not what we want in a sci-fi world. You have to be specific though about your complaints. Chances are you just have preconceived notions because of the MMORPG games you've played in the past. Case in point:

Originally Posted by SniperSteve

PvE is so stale and boring. It is just a pointless grind for levels or pointless quests. You are not interacting with real people that you can become mortal enemies or strong allies with. PvE feels empty and alone. PvP feels like an epic war where things matter.

Planetside 2 wouldn't have to implement it like an RPG game. That is to say there is no grind ideally since you wouldn't get experience or quests to kill the wildlife. It would just be there in regions between bases. So the game focuses on PVP, but the world is also alive. Mutually exclusive ideas that can exist within the Planetside universe together. (You don't have to make it a barren wasteland to keep it PVP centered basically).

Originally Posted by Raymac

So, it would be cool to have something that corrected the sterile stagnant world, but NPCs might have more cons than pros.

Getting people to discuss the cons has been proving difficult.

IronMole · 2012-02-20, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by Sirisian

Getting people to discuss the cons has been proving difficult.

I've still yet to see the pros...

Graywolves · 2012-02-20, 03:11 PM

Imagine if in a forested area, birds actually flew out from the trees if people moved nearby.

Raymac · 2012-02-20, 03:11 PM

I do think it would be extremely cool to have NPC events that are for a limited time like a weekend or something where swarms of alien bugs, or a giant Dune sandworm, or ghosts of Auraxis' original inhabitants are roaming the landscape and sometimes crashing the party of certain battles. It would be cool to have moments where in the middle of a battle, soldiers are making second by second decisions on whether to kill the enemy or fight beside them and focus on this new outside threat.

Obviously, one of the keys to this would be that they are limited time events and not very frequent.

Graywolves · 2012-02-20, 03:15 PM

Originally Posted by Raymac

I do think it would be extremely cool to have NPC events that are for a limited time like a weekend or something where swarms of alien bugs, or a giant Dune sandworm, or ghosts of Auraxis' original inhabitants are roaming the landscape and sometimes crashing the party of certain battles. It would be cool to have moments where in the middle of a battle, soldiers are making second by second decisions on whether to kill the enemy or fight beside them and focus on this new outside threat.

Obviously, one of the keys to this would be that they are limited time events and not very frequent.

Zombie Apocalypse weekend on Cyssor.

Sirisian · 2012-02-20, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by IronMole

I've still yet to see the pros...

Originally Posted by Sirisian

I want them to make the game world more immersive and alive even if no one is around in an area as I fly or drive my vehicle to the front. Or if I'm cloaking or sniping away from people finding my perfect area I want to know there are other dangers of going solo. To me adding creatures are like adding different types of trees or rocks to the continents. Another reason is to add memories to the game and cause a small level of chaos on certain regions of the maps. I have a full post though that's a little more in depth into what I'd specifically want to see.

So the pros are mostly to make the game world more vibrant.

The cons that have been listed are mostly based around performance concerns, cost of development time, and a fear of Planetside adding MMORPG type content to the game in the form of PvE quests, and the fear that it would detract from the PVP experience. All these points have all been refuted numerous times in this thread and others.

Development time is one of the harder ones to refute. I mean you can say that Forge Light is being used for Everquest Next so rigged creatures and rendering them should be implemented, but the content creation for designing unique sci-fi creatures and getting their gameplay tested and ironed out is obviously not a trivial task making it one of the strong cons toward adding creatures.

The humanoid NPCs on the other hand have 100s of cons ranging from adding boring gameplay in and replacing the duties of the 2K players on the continent.

Originally Posted by Raymac

I do think it would be extremely cool to have NPC events that are for a limited time like a weekend or something where swarms of alien bugs, or a giant Dune sandworm, or ghosts of Auraxis' original inhabitants are roaming the landscape and sometimes crashing the party of certain battles.

Events would be interesting, but just having it part of Auraxis would be better. You mention dune worms which I've discussed somewhat previously. More like tremor crystal worms that come from below Indar from the caves. Capable of pushing tanks and attracted to gunfire on certain desert areas. (They'd have a warning where dust would form before they attacked).

Originally Posted by Raymac

It would be cool to have moments where in the middle of a battle, soldiers are making second by second decisions on whether to kill the enemy or fight beside them and focus on this new outside threat.

That's one of the big ideas behind this. It would be something players just know exists in the Auraxis world and creates a level of chaos in the battlefield.

WaryWizard · 2012-02-20, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by IronMole

I've still yet to see the pros...

immersion and aesthetics which have been said more than once I'm sure.

So long as NPCs stay away from bases, can't attack, and provide no xp or "drops" I am perfectly fine with having some SMALL animals here and there.

Also rockets should not explode if the hit a bird. It would be annoying (funny too) if that were to happen while attacking an aircraft.

Talek Krell · 2012-02-20, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by Raymac

I like the idea of doing things to add "life" to the world, but I don't know if NPCs are the way to do it. I mean, if you just stand in a quiet spot in Planetside, the place just feels dead. There is no movement whatsoever, not even a river.

So, it would be cool to have something that corrected the sterile stagnant world, but NPCs might have more cons than pros.

I think that's an interesting thought. Given the uncanny valley effect that even the most advanced NPCs tend to have when you spend any amount of time near them, it might be both a more impactful and a more efficient use of resources to put life into the landscape than try to introduce animals and civilians.

Nobody is fooled into thinking that the NPC shopkeepers that all use the same 3 lines are actually people, but standing on a grassy hill during a quiet moment and hearing a river somewhere off in the morning mist would be kind of sublime. Being shot immediately afterward by some jackass using the mist as cover just means the environmental effects are adding to the gameplay as well.

Tatwi · 2012-02-20, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by Sirisian

So the pros are mostly to make the game world more vibrant.

The cons that have been listed are mostly based around performance concerns, cost of development time, and a fear of Planetside adding MMORPG type content to the game in the form of PvE quests, and the fear that it would detract from the PVP experience. All these points have all been refuted numerous times in this thread and others.

Development time is one of the harder ones to refute. I mean you can say that Forge Light is being used for Everquest Next so rigged creatures and rendering them should be implemented, but the content creation for designing unique sci-fi creatures and getting their gameplay tested and ironed out is obviously not a trivial task making it one of the strong cons toward adding creatures.

The humanoid NPCs on the other hand have 100s of cons ranging from adding boring gameplay in and replacing the duties of the 2K players on the continent.

Refuted? No. They have been replied to, not refuted.

Refute: To prove (something) to be false or incorrect.

No proof has been provided.

Sirisian · 2012-02-20, 03:29 PM

Originally Posted by Tatwi

Refuted? No. They have been replied to, not refuted.

Which con do you think wasn't adequately addressed?

IronMole · 2012-02-20, 03:30 PM

Originally Posted by Sirisian

So the pros are mostly to make the game world more vibrant.

Already done with the weather and day/night cycle... I believe that will give us more immersion than a few NPC's in the middle of "nowhere".

Define "nowhere" in Planetside 2...

Tatwi · 2012-02-20, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by Sirisian

Which con do you think wasn't adequately addressed?

If you wish to refute something, you have to provide proof that the something is false. No here has provided any proof that the cons are false. It's just a lot of opinions on both sides, therefore it's inappropriate for someone to come in here with the blanket statement that the cons have been refuted on many occasions - such an assertion is simply false.

WaryWizard · 2012-02-20, 03:37 PM

Originally Posted by IronMole

Already done with the weather and day/night cycle... I believe that will give us more immersion than a few NPC's in the middle of "nowhere".

Define "nowhere" in Planetside 2...

just cause adding the day/night cycles made it more vibrant than it was doesn't mean it is the most vibrant it could be. There is a long list of many things that could be added to make it aesthetically more appealing. Most of which are impractical, but there are a few that could be added. NPCs are one which could be added. So long as none of them are humanoid, and provide no benefit to any players upon death.

Originally Posted by Tatwi

If you wish to refute something, you have to provide proof that the something is false. No here has provided any proof that the cons are false. It's just a lot of opinions on both sides, therefore it's inappropriate for someone to come in here with the blanket statement that the cons have been refuted on many occasions - such an assertion is simply false.

he didn't say that. (unless I misread) I think you miss read his comment. He wasn't saying anything has been refuted, but instead was saying that it would be difficult to refute that specific thing.

Espion · 2012-02-20, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by Graywolves

Imagine if in a forested area, birds actually flew out from the trees if people moved nearby.

wow

Have you played an FPS before? Random dynamic events in an online team based shooter is one of the worst ideas imaginable. Games like Quake, Tribes, CS, etc are great team shooters because even though the gameplay was still spontaneous and unpredictable, everything that happened was the result of an action by a player in the match. As soon as you cross that line and start adding unknown and uncontrollable elements to the gameplay, it's a very steep and slippery slope away from quality team based play.

Sirisian · 2012-02-20, 03:46 PM

Originally Posted by IronMole

Already done with the weather and day/night cycle...

It's a start. Planetside 1 had weather back in 2003. The day/night cycle is definitely a modern addition.

Originally Posted by Tatwi

If you wish to refute something, you have to provide proof that the something is false. No here has provided any proof that the cons are false. It's just a lot of opinions on both sides, therefore it's inappropriate for someone to come in here with the blanket statement that the cons have been refuted on many occasions - such an assertion is simply false.

I think you misunderstand what I said was refuted. As in shown to be incorrect statements.

Originally Posted by Sirisian

performance concerns

Completely speculative assertions people made regarding performance cost. Refuted on the grounds that they have no idea what they're talking about.

Originally Posted by Sirisian

a fear of Planetside adding MMORPG type content to the game in the form of PvE quests

Refuted since it's a straw man argument to direct the conversation to something everyone here has said they don't want.

Originally Posted by Sirisian

the fear that it would detract from the PVP experience

Solutions were brought forth to keep them out of most of the fights. This con isn't well defined, but it's been brought up a few times. Refuting it isn't possible on that regard. It's based on assumptions from both sides toward a poor implementation and an ideal implementation.

Originally Posted by Espion

wow

Have you played an FPS before? Random dynamic events in an online team based shooter is one of the worst ideas imaginable. Games like Quake, Tribes, CS, etc are great team shooters because even though the gameplay was still spontaneous and unpredictable, everything that happened was the result of an action by a player in the match. As soon as you cross that line and start adding unknown and uncontrollable elements to the gameplay, it's a very steep and slippery slope away from quality team based play.

I have no idea what side you're on, but that was awesome.