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2013-01-11, 06:27 PM
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[Ignore Me] #17 | ||||
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Contributor Brigadier General
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...vehicle spam comes from the fact that vehicles only require one man to operate, the fact that it takes just a couple of minutes to get to the other side of a continent on wheels/tracks and the fact that you can fully repair a burning Vanguard in less then 10 seconds.
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Last edited by NewSith; 2013-01-11 at 06:41 PM. |
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2013-01-11, 07:47 PM
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[Ignore Me] #18 | ||
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Contributor Private
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I don't think longer hack timers will help much, for two reasons: One, I believe that enough of the zerg is more focused on K/D than XP, so they won't wait around; and two, territory is basically indefensible now, so the extra time won't help you set up defenses that you don't have.
I would like to posit a different change: Create organized infantry force multipliers. Something that would increase the overall power of infantry when wielded with intelligence and synchronization. These would be defensive and offensive abilities specifically designed to blunt or frustrate a zerg, but be counterable by organized resistance. This would give small outfits something to do, would inherently create some metagame (what abilities to use, how to best use them and when), and would minimize the influence of the zerg, while rewarding organization. Here's a few quick examples that need work, but illustrate what I mean: 1> A squad could all switch to engi, go to a control point, and hold 'B' (or whatever) for 30 seconds. This would lock the point until the enemy brought an equal or greater-sized squad to the point to detune it. (The enemy squad probably wouldn't need to be all engi's, but perhaps some percentage is required.) 2> An infil, an engi, and a HA (all in same squad, natch) could team up somehow (insert magic here) to fire off tank killers. The engi duct tapes C4 to the front of the HA's AV weapon (yeah, yeah, Vanu) and the infil spots somehow, and the round turns into a guided, speedy ball of tank-blowy-up-edness. Organized enemies could have jammers (more magic here) to minimize the effect on their squad/platoon. Add balance to taste. 3> An engi and a medic could link up somehow (magic!) to give squadmates temporary damage reduction plus regen. 4> Four light assault in the same squad, with full jet packs, all hit 'B' (or whatever) on a squaddie max for 10 seconds. This gives the max one bigger "bar" of non-renewable jump jets. Add cooldowns, restrictions etc to balance. |
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2013-01-11, 09:33 PM
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[Ignore Me] #21 | ||
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Sergeant
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Nice videos Basti. I agree generally with your points on almost every count. (except the AWACS thing : Sensor Disruptors, Interlink Benefits and CE are my preferred radar solution)
Only thing I can urge is to please revisit a lot of the Planetside 1 features that have been lost. PS1 wasn't just about the huge battles. The iconic elements of the gameplay have just disappeared and this is what the fanbase are craving for. Planetside without Max Crashes, Resecures, Gen Holds, Proper Warpgates, Emp Grenades, CE, Interlinks is like having Pizza without the calories or Indycar without the smell of gasoline. |
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2013-01-12, 12:50 AM
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[Ignore Me] #22 | |||
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Brigadier General
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Im not sure about longer repair times. It already takes a bit to repair alone. And i really dont see repair time as a way to stop the vehicle zergs. Problem is that you usually dont have enough people around to attempt to stop the vehicle zerg in the first place, means you dont do enough damage to them to even get them to repair. |
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2013-01-12, 02:53 AM
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[Ignore Me] #23 | ||
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Contributor Second Lieutenant
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I like all of the ideas but i think that longer capture timers wont be enough to set up proper defences and last but not least to foster proper big battles.
There are still too many capture points available at the same time. It has to be reduced or we need a lattice. There is no xp for defending outposts/bases. There is too much xp for ghost captures. There is nothing to do till the enemy arrives (e.g. CE) Last edited by Mox; 2013-01-12 at 03:23 AM. |
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2013-01-12, 04:00 AM
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[Ignore Me] #24 | ||
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Staff Sergeant
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The need for tactical objectives (i.e., gen holds, tower holds, etc) is fairly obvious but likely won't be addressed until they have sorted out the game for the zerg.
This raises the issue of defense and why no one really does it. I have seen several posts from Higby and others about incentivising defense through experience boosts and in my opinion this is just skirting the real underlying problem. In Planetside 1 people defended because it was a farm (Interfarm anyone). You had 3 phases to this farm:
As the bases were designed differently you could observe how the design elements affected gameplay. For instance, defending a bio lab was almost a waste of time since the generator was on the roof and easily accessible to the attackers. Similarly, Amp Stations had a similar problem with the command center being located on the roof. In both of these cases a major objective required respawning defenders to go outside to reach it. The interlink facility and drop ship center were the opposite. People scrambled over eachother to defend these as the design favored the defender. In PS2 (from what I experienced), the base designs appear to have been layed out with "even playing field" as the driving goal (frequently favoring the attacking force). Designing for an even playing field is necessary in small map limited time matches of traditional FPS titles otherwise the match would be determined by who reached the best defensive position the earliest. In a persistent MMOFPS, however, base design must mirror more closely that of real life. As in, why wouldn't you design your base with every advantage in your favor?!? Walls (ffs...), turrets, cover, defensive chokepoints, etc should ALL favor the defense. In a post somewhere on this site I noticed Malorn saying "a smaller force can't defend against a larger force, and they shouldn't expect to" or some such... THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE BASE DESIGN. Allowing a smaller force to defend against a larger force IS EXACTLY WHAT DEFENSIVE FORTIFICATIONS ARE SUPPOSED TO ALLOW FOR. When they don't guess what happens? Everyone just attacks, no defense. With a properly designed defensive base, the battle is fully incentivised.
Just my opinion though... (Disclaimer: I haven't played PS2 since beta as my computer simply wasn't good enough, this is soon to change however. As such, my opinions are grounded in the environmental/base designs as they existed just before launch)
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2013-01-12, 04:55 AM
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[Ignore Me] #25 | |||
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Contributor General
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But about the hack timers. Sure some people will immediately move on looking for the next kill, that's fine because there';s isn't supposed to be 1 proper playstyle. But, many people will also stay to defend and an outfit will assign people to defferent defensive postions. If no one defends the hack then there is a greater scope for a spec ops counter-attack, two gals drop a resecure force and take back the base. So there is incentive to stay and make sure of the hack. But we just have to see what will happen by looking back at PS1. When the hack went on the 'winners' talked to their friends, talked on leader chat, looked at the overall strategic situation, took a bio break, refilled their glasses, made plans, assigned someone to return to the warpgate to bring a galaxy for a fast pick-up and go and finallt but not least - we celebrated our victory with a CONGA!!!!!!! The conga has been nerfed  @basti I think "we're bored because there is nothing to do" is a simple and devastating criticism of the current game and totally correct. I also agree that sanctuaries are essential. I was willing to suspend judgement earlier but I think the game state is prove enough, they are really really needed. Sorry Mat, I know you have set your face against them, but please thing again. I find it discouraging when you think we need 6 continents. You are probably right (and as we know from ps1 even more continents will be even better) but that means we won't see the game properly working for maybe a year. Will I have patience for that? Although I am playing almost every day in each session I find it hard to stay interested for more than 30 minutes, which is a complete difference to the same point in PS1.
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Last edited by ringring; 2013-01-12 at 05:02 AM. |
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2013-01-12, 05:05 AM
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[Ignore Me] #26 | ||
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Sergeant
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I just mentored 2 friends into their first Planetside 2 experience. First off, they were amazed at the scale, scope an the current "bare bones" features currently available. They put it quite simply (one of whom is an fps fan) for a free to play game it's quite an achievement as a new MMO. Second off, they made a bold statement, that if I were not able to show them around, explain how the basics worked, character progression an the how to's for their respective class types they would have been completely lost an overwhelmed.. most likely one of them would not consider replaying, the other being an fps fan would have picked at it for a while, an had already admitted they spent about 3 hours just trying to find their way around an was still at a loss.
So.. yes. Speaking both as a planetside 1 vet(beta tester) an FPS fan (CS:S, BF3, Halo, TFC, BL:R) The new user experience is killing the first time players review of this game, only the ones with the stomach to give it further attempts. WE NEED, not for us but as an immersion tool for new players....a true faction island sanctuary. With a proper new player experience just like Planetside 1 had. Tutorial, complete reward information system for learning about each an every aspect, from terminal types, class function, tool functions, vehicle an weapons operations (VR Room) generator types (shield/SCU) an how they work. Explanation of capture mechanics. ALSO... 3 more continents (2 at minimum) to create a continental lock metagame, with better real benefits. Bonuses for continental locks should be, XP boosts, additional shield boost, vehicle shielding, double health boost. Real benefits that can enhance players abilities an give real solid reasons to wanting that continent locked. Lattice system, tether larger facilities with linked systems to major facilities. Have the large facilities act as safeguard measures to keep major facilities under a factions control. Increase the cap timer (at least double). Remove the flip xp reward to a scale able battle xp reward. Have a minimum for little or no fight, an scale it up for a larger protracted fight. Make the reward truly massive, it should easily be 5x the current reward value if it's a massive fight. Add in a resource/power supply system. A possible addition of new vehicles, Harvester + ANT, could add another logistical playstyle for players who are not arena deathmatch players (or simply do not have the machines to handle large/massive battles) yet can still play an would like to alongside friends in a socially dynamic rewarding way. Add reward incentives for escorting those vehicles safely to the resource distribution center or power supplying NTU silo's at large/major facilities. Nanites don't replicate themselves infinitely. Change the resource system, scrap aerospace/mechanical/infantry. Consolidate the resource into one type Auraxium. Make Auraxium nodes large desposits that deplete with each successive harvest. Make them have a random respawn of same resource to another location once fully depleted. As well that hex stays dry for X amount of time. This way resources have a slight finite component an need to be managed more effectively by the players themselves. Base design still needs to be redesigned. I understand the ESports appeal that Higby/Smedley are eager for, but the majority (95%) of the base designs are absolutely horrible for an ESports concept. At least the larger/major facilities are horrible for this, with a few exceptions (Crown, Scarred Messa, Howling Pass, Biolabs, Auraxium Firearms, Lithcorp Mining) Large an Major base designs should be defensible to this format. Main Structure - Infantry vs Infantry Interior Court - Infantry/vehicle (favors infantry) airpower zero effect (due to cover/barrier layouts) Outer walls/defenses - Airpower (most effective) / vehicle (secures the ground push) /infantry (least) Outer Camps - Airpower/vehicles (most effective) / Infantry to secure/hold With the addition of a tunnel system from the mainspawns to the main base/outer walls will help alleviate some of the "camp" issues, but it still doesn't address the vehicle spam that saturates the current capture/take hold process for bases. It's a nice bandaid an probably a quick fix, so I'm hoping they're really taking a look towards better more solid base redesigns. There's so much more I can go on about that could help, work, fix, freshen.. etc. Last edited by Archonzero; 2013-01-12 at 05:08 AM. |
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2013-01-12, 07:48 AM
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[Ignore Me] #27 | ||
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Contributor General
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Sanctuary idea........
in PS1 there was a sanctuary with 3 outposts (called Villas) and each had an entrance to VR and a Hart building for quick insertion to any continent. How about instead of 3 villas each Sanc had a copy of an AMP Station, a Tech Plant and a Bio Lab. In addition to this there would be missions that you could pick up ained at confused and new players (who are often the same) that would guide players through orientation. e.g. Mission: Amp Station- Generator Orientation 1) Main shield generator - go and overload it 2) East shield generator -ditto- 3) West shield generator - ditto- 4) SCU shield generator -ditto- 5) SCU generator -ditto- and so on for other aspects and bases except compact the bases a little so not as much running is necessary.
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2013-01-12, 08:40 AM
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[Ignore Me] #28 | ||
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Sergeant
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Capture timers
I really dont like the capture timers. I also don't just want to make timers longer. I'd much prefer a fixed timer.. One with numbers to indicate how long the cap will take. With a bar I have to watch it count down and estimate how long we have to get there. Is it going fast or slow? Can we respond? I have to hover over a bar for 10 seconds to even estimate if we can organise a response in time. This is one of the reasons there is no practical way to organise a response squad. Nothing worse than landing a gal to an area.. and you've misjudge the bar speed and change target with a gal full of pumped responders. No matter what the mechanic - Fix the timer - Put it in a number, hopefully, a number describing how long is left before the cap Defensibility & Special Ops The change to the class system where we don't loot backpacks for ammo and to an engineer that supplys ammo for me has killed the possibility of a gen hold. You can't do that whole mechanic if there is no possibility of the ammo inside the choke point running out. If you put enough players inside a defensible choke point then you have to ultimately be able to either zerg them or siege them out and wear them down. If you take out the possibility of starving them of resupplies then there is only one solution. And we return to the Zerg. Given the choice between the engineer that we have now with ammor resupply (which I really love to play btw) and the reintroduction of generator holds : Ditch the engineer ammo resupply...give me a gen hold any day. Give me an engineer resupply pack that can't be placed inside the buildings of an enemy facility. Outside the buildings fine : at least I have to put my head out of the door to resupply. Let me loot ammo again! And give us our gen holds back! New player experience The Planetside gameplay and mechanics now are already complex and difficult to understand for any player who wants to be just jump right in and pick up everything intuitively. Look at the SeanAnnos videos to see how a complete noob who hasn't even bothered reading a manual will experience the game without having done any reading or watching any tutorial videos (sigh... that is for another topic!) This could definitely be helped by single player tutorials, VR Training etc. Even the existing shallow simplistic gameplay is not intuitive to pick up. If players have to invest time in order to learn how the gameplay works.. you better make sure that the gameplay is worth the users investment in time. Look at Eve Online. Steep learning curve but it's ultimately worth it. It would be a very bad move to have a steep learning curve for planetside 2 and then ultimately your players just don't have a rich well thought out gameplay reward once they've worked out all of the mechanics. Until you work out the gameplay details properly - you shouldn't invest time into doing a heavy tutorial system. You will just have to do them again once you actually work out the gameplay. If you do a tutorial then radically change the gameplay you're wasting all of your development effort. |
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2013-01-12, 09:03 AM
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[Ignore Me] #29 | ||
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Major
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It's boring because this game is either too easy or too frustrating: vehicle play; infantry play.
Since we're all in vehicles because who doesn't like "too easy," we get bored to tears sitting in our tanks, esfs and libs while waiting for empty bases to cap because we chased away all of the defenders because we are in our overpowered tanks, esfs and libs. It's a catch-22. The devs, ensuring those that want to play tanks, esfs and libs, can do so at their leisure--and knowing these things dominate infantry (on purpose)--completely fails to realize there is another side to this coin. Where does this leave the players that want to play infantry? Vehicles are made to dominate infantry and can be accessed at will. Bio labs and the warp gate? No where really, so they play vehicles and this mess of a game rolls on. |
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2013-01-12, 09:48 AM
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[Ignore Me] #30 | |||
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Contributor First Lieutenant
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