Tunnels - Attributes thereof

[ringring]

So, we're going to get tunnels. Yay!
And, we're going to get a preview on Friday or Saturday for Us on this side of the pond via Purrfectstorm/Luperza/Maggie and Jimmy Whis on Friday Night Ops - technical stuff permitting.

The question to you is, what are the attributes 'tunnels' should have to improve defensibility of bases and to improve the infantry fight.

My answer (and this mainly applies to the Amp Station):

Simply having a 'tunnel' won't cut it. There must be underground spaces, ie tunnels leading to 2-3 rooms that must be fought through.

It must not be completely linear but at the same time it must not be a spaggettii down there and it must have a structure that can be visualised by a normal human mind.

The exists from the underground are important for the defenders. Is the capture point going to remain where it is (on the Amp Station), if so it must not be campable by a vehicle. But, if infantry have the forces available to camp then so be it.

Similarly, the SCU cannot remain where it is, it should be placed into a harder to reach spot, ie underground and perhaps right by the spawn room.

[Ghoest9]

Sometimes you find gold in tunnels!!

[NewSith]

All AMP station needs is 3 tunnels - one leading to the SCU, and two others leading to horizontal and vertical shields.


You see, from strategical point of view, AMP station is the easiest to defend. All you need to do is hold one (of the two, I should point out) small shield generator to pretty much DENY enemy the base.

The real problem is - defenders have severe problems with accessing the said generators, while attackers can get to them rather easily.


That's a quick fix though, there're lots of counter-defensive designs built into AMP Stations:

• Walls that can be easily jumped onto even when player is not LA (I'm not gonna tell you how)
• Backdoors... Excuse me backGATES in walls (Hell, I'm all fine if there're holes in AMP Station walls for infantry to go through. But when you can just IGNORE the vehicle gate shields by driving a sunderer through a giant "go-through-here" design, that's flawed)
• Two-direction Jumppads that result in benefitting attackers more than defenders (Just imagine for a sec jumppads existing only on the wall hub infront of the spawnroom)
• Spawnroom doors facing the wrong direction
• Turrets that can be obliterated in a split second while they have 4-times longer repair time than an MBT

And I'm not even mentioning the CY layout.

[PredatorFour]

First tunnels .... next, underground spawns !

[Tatwi]

Originally Posted by Ghoest9

Sometimes you find gold in tunnels!!

Also found in tunnels.

[ShadetheDruid]

Originally Posted by ringring

It must not be completely linear but at the same time it must not be a spaggettii down there and it must have a structure that can be visualised by a normal human mind.

So, tributes to M. C. Escher are right out? I was hoping we'd get some tunnels that help with base defense via confusing the shit out of the enemy.

More seriously, i'd love if they'd put things like a supply room beneath the bases (like at the end of the tunnels leading from the spawns, where the access to the main structure is). It bugs me every time I go to a tech plant or amp station that there's no equipment terminals in the main buildings.

[SeraphC]

Originally Posted by ShadetheDruid

More seriously, i'd love if they'd put things like a supply room beneath the bases (like at the end of the tunnels leading from the spawns, where the access to the main structure is). It bugs me every time I go to a tech plant or amp station that there's no equipment terminals in the main buildings.

Same here. Couple of reasons though:

-Promoting engineers and medics support role
-Negating an "endless" supply of proximity mines and the likes
-Stopping grenade spam. I wouldn't be surprised if grenades killed more friendlies than hostiles overall. Definitely on the defending sides.
-Forcing the use of different classes. I'm not sure about this, but if we had terminals you might see everyone suddenly playing MAX for the last stand/counter push.

[ShadetheDruid]

Mmm, I figured those kinds of things would be the reason, though it's weird that it's only certain bases that are like that and not all of them. Places like bio labs and towers don't have that issue (well, some towers don't have equipment terminals outside the spawn room, most do).

[ringring]

When considering tunnels I tend to always thing about the Amp Station since that's the one I particularly hate (or dislike particularly).

However, what about the Tech Plant. A simple tunnel from the spawns to the main building would also not be enough. It would nly take us back part-way to the situation before the disaster nerf just prior to Xmas.

They also really need to move one or more generators in tech plants.

[MrBloodworth]

Its not really tunnels per-say that are needed, but rather underground parts of the complex. There are many locations that already have some sort of blast door looking structure that does not open. Those should have locked doors that lead to an underground complex necessary to take the base, including some elements on the surface part of the base.

All connecting tunnels should work like phases with cover for a good firefight along the way. However not all of them should be the width of the original game, some should be rather wide. Some should be set up as if they are vehicle hangars for ground vehicles, with broken or in a state of repair equipment. ETC..

Lots of possibilities.

[StumpyTheOzzie]

Originally Posted by SeraphC

Same here. Couple of reasons though:

-Stopping grenade spam. I wouldn't be surprised if grenades killed more friendlies than hostiles overall. Definitely on the defending sides.

Oh my god yes. Somebody saw my entire outfit (12 of us) clumped together and must have panicked. He grenaded us and killed 6, wounded 4.

Why he thought the enemy were in a friendly spawnroom teleport exit thingy at a biolab I'll never know.

Now... do you think tunnels will be dark? NV dark? Can you imagine the terrified 11 year old's grenade spam THEN?

[Climhazzard]

I think people are expecting too much from these tunnels. As I read the bullet point, they're intended as a means of allowing the defending faction to move from the spawn room to the main building and the outer walls without crossing open ground. Nothing more.

[typhaon]

I'm not really expecting much.

I think people just want better designed bases... bases that actually look and feel like they were designed to be defended.

Why can't the generators be connected to bases with above ground hallways? Why can't the bases just have larger interiors? You could always throw some small windows around if you want to give vehicles a reason to still sit outside and pound away.

[Beerbeer]

Or multiple tunnels leading to different parts of the base. But yes, one tunnel won't cut it, especially if certain key elements are left to the mercy of vehicles. Fight is over.

[burkorobe]

I wouldn't be surprised if grenades killed more friendlies than hostiles overall.