Liberators.

Assist · 2013-01-19, 10:58 AM

What is their role in your opinion?
For me they're supposed to be a bomber. They're supposed to be tactical in the same sense that a Sunderer is. They should have SOME sort of limitations(I guess with tunnels they won't be able to go in those).
On Waterson the Liberators are used now as AA and AvG. Watching a 2 person Liberator roll 4 ESF's using the Dalton is just ridiculous. 4 shots, 800 resources destroyed in not even 20 seconds.

If someone could also explain to me the logic in allowing a bomber to have a cannon that rotates paired with a vehicle that can attain the same manuverability of an ESF I'd love that as well. The gravity on the projectile is a joke, I can hop in one and figure it out in one shot. It's no different then the MBT gravity except for the fact that it's an MBT that travels 200 kph and has a turret/cannon that is 100x more maneuverable and has twice the durability. Oh, and it has a third gun that almost every Libwhore uses a Bulldog on now because the AA weapons in this game are HORRIBLE. When it's easier to shoot a projectile(and it's WAY too easy) and hit an air vehicle rather than using a ***FLAK*** cannon then you have a serious issue in your balancing.

Matt Higby, if you read this forum, please explain to me who considers Liberators balanced now and where exactly this skill ceiling you talk about comes into play on them? Please, take your balancing feedback from people who play the game on a daily basis rather than just the twitterverse.

Make the damn cannon on the gun fixed and solve the problem already. That's all it takes to fix Liberators without hurting the ESF's even more.

PredatorFour · 2013-01-19, 11:06 AM

The problem is they are a gunship. If they were a bomber like in the original(i said it again) it would have worked a treat.

Pounding death from the sky is going to be hard to balance really. Even the slight changes they made, though they made it more skillful to gun, haven't really sorted the lib issue imo - but its down to design.

Echor · 2013-01-19, 11:54 AM

A possible balance to the lib, a few changes as listed.

1. Only be able to carry enough bombs to kill 1/1/2 mbt in its unmodded form, add enough bombs for half a mbt on each upgrade. (I'd also add a spare bomb on the first and one spare for each upgrade)

2. Change the tail gun to be very nasty against other aircraft, but make the bombs weak, also make the tail gun weak against any ground target.

3. Raise the value in xp for killing one by a large chunk, make it a target that's really worth going for (like a Gal is)

4. Keep the armour as it is.

These few changes might reduce the amount of air spam, or death from above. The increase in fire power against other aircraft but xp value I'd hope would raise the survival chances against other aircraft, but more would want to kill it due to the increased reward.
These changes might mean that an adjustment against sundy's armour would need looking at, due to the decreased bomb load.

Just some thoughts from a pilot with a fully specced lib

MonsterBone · 2013-01-19, 12:48 PM

They should explode when someone gets in them. Problem solved!

Beerbeer · 2013-01-19, 12:54 PM

Wish they require an infantryman to designate targets for them before they can shoot. Then their stature could be more easily justified.

It's just the ultimate, overpowered farming tool as it stands now.

Assist · 2013-01-19, 01:01 PM

Originally Posted by MonsterBone

They should explode when someone gets in them. Problem solved!

At least someone else out there sees things my way.

Kirotan · 2013-01-19, 01:01 PM

On Waterson the Liberators are used now as AA and AvG. Watching a 2 person Liberator roll 4 ESF's using the Dalton is just ridiculous. 4 shots, 800 resources destroyed in not even 20 seconds.

Those are some terrible ESF pilots, you're exaggerating, or it happened once and the Lib was very lucky or aimbotting.

How many times have you seen a lib actually do this?

james · 2013-01-19, 01:04 PM

The problem was they decided to make an AC130, but give it a 360 degree view on the gun, and make it a tank in the sky, but still moves like a gimped esf.

Illtempered · 2013-01-19, 01:05 PM

In my humble opinion, they are fine, especially since the upgrades to AA. I rarely die to Lib spam on the ground, and I don't fly one often, so I don't think I have much of a bias.

I fly a Scythe quite a bit though, and the good Shredder Libs are the ones I fear the most as an ESF pilot.

Assist · 2013-01-19, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by Kirotan

Those are some terrible ESF pilots, you're exaggerating, or it happened once and the Lib was very lucky or aimbotting.

How many times have you seen a lib actually do this?

Considering my playtime, I don't know, a few hundred? I'm not exaggerating at all. I don't know if Waterson is just ahead of the curve on this or what, but there's at least 4 Liberator teams on Waterson that just use the Dalton to destroy ESF's. No one even goes after them unless they're using other Liberators. It's pathetic when you see in Leader chat people asking for Liberators to take out other Liberators.

Assist · 2013-01-19, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by Illtempered

In my humble opinion, they are fine, especially since the upgrades to AA. I rarely die to Lib spam on the ground, and I don't fly one often, so I don't think I have much of a bias.

I fly a Scythe quite a bit though, and the good Shredder Libs are the ones I fear the most as an ESF pilot.

And you've never been shotdown by Skwurting or Sashagrey using the Dalton the instant you got close enough to lockon ?

Kirotan · 2013-01-19, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by Illtempered

In my humble opinion, they are fine, especially since the upgrades to AA. I rarely die to Lib spam on the ground, and I don't fly one often, so I don't think I have much of a bias.

I fly a Scythe quite a bit though, and the good Shredder Libs are the ones I fear the most as an ESF pilot.

This. If I see a shredder on a Lib, I either forget about it or try to approach from above and do so very carefully. Other libs are free kills as long as I have time to shoot them down before they make it back to their side of the line.

Kirotan · 2013-01-19, 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by Assist

And you've never been shotdown by Skwurting or Sashagrey using the Dalton the instant you got close enough to lockon ?

I'll make a VS alt on Waterson and try it out this weekend. I find it hard to believe but I won't say you're wrong until I walk a mile in your shoes.

p.s. I am keeping your shoes. They are quite stylish I must admit.

edit: oh what empire are they?

Illtempered · 2013-01-19, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by Assist

And you've never been shotdown by Skwurting or Sashagrey using the Dalton the instant you got close enough to lockon ?

Yes I've been shot down by Skwurting a number of times. I'm not one to point the finger and call 'cheater' much, but that dude has had some amazing shots on me with all kinds of weapons. I hope the admins occasionally take a peak at him...

sneeek · 2013-01-19, 02:16 PM

What really puzzled me was the update where ESFs got doubly nerfed, when they're one of the few counters to liberators. With the buffs to flak and nerfs to composite armour, you can't really chase a damaged liberator into enemy territory without taking serious damage from flak.