Kill Cams - Page 3

Lonehunter · 2011-09-30, 10:40 PM

I'm really surprised to see this in PS2. It is a very big game mechanic, it's not just about whether or not you want to watch a vid of a kill. PS is more strategic then any other FPS out there, and giving away someone's location, the people around them, and the general tactics they are using every time you get killed, changes the game drastically.

Furret · 2011-09-30, 10:46 PM

Originally Posted by Crazyduckling

we'll see how it works in beta.

These six words should be at the bottom of EVERY post in this section of the forum.

And honestly I have no idea why everyone has a problem with killcams. As raymac suggested, this game will have a massive learning curve, and killcams are the best way to show you what you're doing wrong.

You think you're doing a good job of dodging till you watch someone kill you from their perspective and you're practically a sitting duck.

You think you've been leading your shots well until you see a veteran light you up without missing.

And really, what 'intel' is the enemy gaining from knowing where you WERE. Unless you've gone and pitched a tent, you shouldn't have a problem with the enemy knowing your location 30 seconds in the past.

And if you have pitched a tent, its your fault for being an easy target.

My only problem would be if it shows where the AMS you just spawned at is, or other tactical vehicles etc. that rely on stealth rather than mobility to stay alive.

As for cloakers, I've never liked your kind anyway

Crator · 2011-09-30, 10:46 PM

Have to see how it works in beta to really judge it though.

BorisBlade · 2011-09-30, 10:53 PM

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

Game genres evolve. They have to meet the desires of people used to playing todays games.

What else have they done? Infantry classes? Gee only BF has ever done that, right?

Solo killwhore vehicles. Wait.. PS had those too. But its just like BF because they will have a strong secondary position that compliments the vehicle, just like BF, right? Its fine though because just like BF there are only 2 or 3 per map.. Oh wait..

ZOMG! Realistic flight fizziks! STOLE IT FROM BATTLEFIELD!

Squad spawning? Stole it from battlefield? Or not.. PS already had the mechanic with the HARTs. They just eliminated the HART timer and streamlined the process.

Yep. May as well be a BF clone. I bet they even have a soldier walking towards the camera on the box using a shadowy orange pallet.

And almost every FPS now has killcams. And to me it suggests that they think people like kill cams and that it won't give away any useful intel. Theres a sniper on the ridge? No way!

Hart drops are not even remotely like squad spawning, thats like saying someone's mini cooper is the same as a ferrari, they both drive right? Solo killwhore vehicles, those were the exception in ps1 and frowned upon and were, aside from the reaver, inferior to the group ones. PS2 is turnin all vehicles into solo kill whore vehicles all of them. And no, modernizing a game does not mean you have to copy other games, that makes no sense. And kill cams are not modernizing, there is no modern aspect to that, its just a feature, a terrible feature and yeah it gives away alot of info, quite often in games like BF wehre you die dam near instantly, you dont know where they were shooting from, til the kill cam comes up and gives em away completely, it must be able to be toggled off, from both ends. I dont want to see em, nor do i want my enemy to get the full cam view of exactly how my squad is set up in an area with this free spy cam they call a kill cam. This isnt some boring cheap deathmatch, which is where kill cams belong.

They are focusing too much on death match solo type gameplay. PS is not that, and it really kills the atmosphere and overall experience of the game when they do this stuff. yeah you can have some teamwork in ps2 but its like a team of rambos. Thats not the same as real teamwork like ps1 encouraged.

Captain B · 2011-09-30, 10:54 PM

As others said, "see it in beta." But I will say that so long as it doesn't give you a bird's eye view of the area and all the tactical intel involved (who knows - maybe satellite imaging will be an in-game feature for squad leading anyway), I don't particularly care.

As others have continuously said, PS is not BF or CoD. You have SO many people running around. I get killed 'cause I'm too close to a tank that drove up beside me that got blown up when it parked it's massive ass next door. I get killed when a Sparrow wobbles up beside me on the ridge while I'm sniping at the bottom, and here come all the missiles!

I get killed if I snipe more than two or three people and not move - and that's if I'm lucky! Often I take one person out or even just a single shot in some environments and it isn't terribly hard to guess where I'm at.

I think with the new camo system it may be harder to see the glaring gold armor in the bushes as it was before, or bright purple in a desert. Not to mention snipers with headshots potentially one-shotting enemies? Imagine if it took 5 minutes to find these guys - no one would be outside on the battlements defending the base 'cause they just die!

"Let 'em have it. We'll push 'em back from the inside once those snipers arm up and push in."

Bags · 2011-09-30, 11:01 PM

Originally Posted by BorisBlade

Hart drops are not even remotely like squad spawning, thats like saying someone's mini cooper is the same as a ferrari, they both drive right?

Hart: Recall + possible timer: 30 seconds to four minutes
Squad spawning: 0 seconds to TIMER (they haven't stated how long the cooldown will be, and if it's per person or per squad leader)

I think they're going to be fairly comparable.

kaffis · 2011-09-30, 11:09 PM

Originally Posted by Lonehunter187

I'm really surprised to see this in PS2. It is a very big game mechanic, it's not just about whether or not you want to watch a vid of a kill. PS is more strategic then any other FPS out there, and giving away someone's location, the people around them, and the general tactics they are using every time you get killed, changes the game drastically.

Meh. Giving away direction isn't that big a strategic disruptor. If you've engaged the enemy, it's too late for them knowing where you are to affect your strategy.

In other words, if you've taken the time to get into a good flanking position, that's not spoiled because, once you start shooting, they know you've flanked them. You're already taking advantage of that preparation, and they're already suffering for it.

I value kill-cams for their ability to teach new players valuable lessons that will reduce the learning curve and keep them playing instead of quitting because it's too hard and all they do is die.

My ideal kill-cam would be one that does a minor (1.5x?) zoom, from a vantage point slightly above the body, in the general direction the shot came from. Don't center directly on the killer (factor in maybe a 20-30 degree randomization variable), but point close enough that the player can spot you if you're not hidden well, just as he could have if he'd survived long enough to turn.

As CutterJohn says earlier, PlanetSide is not that sneaky a game. It's not Massively Splinter Cell Online. The vast majority of it involves guys in bright yellow, purple, or red shooting at each other from 30 foot long vehicles or from 40 feet away.

Furthermore, this stress on speeding up the pacing means the last thing they want to promote is camping killwhoring. I'm sorry guys, but if that's what you want, you have to expect to be fighting against the mechanics, just the same as guys who wanted slower TTKs having to deal with there being headshots and whatnot. As such, instead of finding the perfect hiding spot and picking off a lone straggler (so your tracer isn't seen) every 5 minutes, expect to shoot 2 guys, then pack up, retreat, and move to a new position.

Captain B · 2011-09-30, 11:10 PM

It's also on the Squad Leader - if he dies, no spawning (unless he upgrades his cert tree to allow for anyone in the squad to be a "spawn point"). And then there are timers depending on that level.

I still think a medic would be more important than a squad leader overall. Rather not have to wait and respawn than simply resing teammates.

Furret · 2011-09-30, 11:15 PM

Another thing I'm starting to notice is that we take each individual feature they announce for PS2 and compare it with every other feature from PS1. I think it's time to grow some balls and get over the fact that PS2 is going to be a whole new game. If you wanted a PS1 reskin, then you're out of luck.

Have faith that the development team aren't idiots (though we might not be so lucky with marketing D

and assume that everything will work out in beta. And even if it doesnt, THAT'S WHAT BETA'S FOR. If killcams are gamebreaking which everyone seems to make them out to be, they'll be removed.

Crator · 2011-09-30, 11:18 PM

That, and flying GALs that troops and maxes can spawn at

Xyntech · 2011-09-30, 11:45 PM

Originally Posted by Furret

Another thing I'm starting to notice is that we take each individual feature they announce for PS2 and compare it with every other feature from PS1. I think it's time to grow some balls and get over the fact that PS2 is going to be a whole new game. If you wanted a PS1 reskin, then you're out of luck.

Have faith that the development team aren't idiots (though we might not be so lucky with marketing D

and assume that everything will work out in beta. And even if it doesnt, THAT'S WHAT BETA'S FOR. If killcams are gamebreaking which everyone seems to make them out to be, they'll be removed.

This.

We have survived exploitation of the third person camera in PS1, where as this would barely ever give anyone even the slightest advantage. I think we'll be alright.

Captain1nsaneo · 2011-09-30, 11:48 PM

Killcams break immersion. Period.

As for killcams being learning tools, firstly the player killed has to be able to use the weapon that killed them for the killcam to be most effective. In Planetside 2 that's not going to happen. Training shouldn't rely on a game mechanic, players should teach other players. I've tried to always have time for anyone who honestly asked a question and help them get a better feel for the game. Encourage your juniors and emphasis their finding what they find fun in the game. Hamma, the PSU staff, and PS Syndicate have done a lot for helping younger players but in the end it will come down to individual outfits and their members. I do not believe that learning is a valid reason for killcams.

Death cam as we have it now is a good middle ground between killcams and no killcams.

Raymac · 2011-10-01, 12:08 AM

Originally Posted by Captain1nsaneo

As for killcams being learning tools, firstly the player killed has to be able to use the weapon that killed them for the killcam to be most effective.

This premise is totally incorrect. The best thing a killcam teaches you is what YOU did wrong to get killed, so you can learn from your mistake. Sure it can also teach you what the other player did right, but you get much more out of seeing yourself from the other players perspective.

And PSU and helpful Planetsiders like yourself will still be here to help newer players, but why should we force newer players to ask for help? People shouldn't need to take a class. Just give players the tools to learn on their own.

Accuser · 2011-10-01, 12:32 AM

I think we might all be working with different understandings of the words "killcam". It could be:
1. A replay of your death from the killer's perspective.
2. A view of your killer while you were dying from your perspective.
3. A 3rd person view of your killer -after- you died.
4. Something else?

I don't like 1 or 2, but they don't really give away much info. Number 3 gives away the killer's position but also what resources the enemy team has (or doesn't have) in that area. That's no good.

cellinaire · 2011-10-01, 12:35 AM

Hehe, I sometimes think some of you guys forget SOE is a profit seeking company(with Smedley as CEO).

Most of all. kill-cam will be (technically) relatively easy to undo/fix. So let's just see what this is all about in Beta, shall we?