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View Poll Results: Should mines be kept?
Yes, until log off, if not indefinitely 59 47.97%
Yes, but only for a limited time like ten or twenty minutes 22 17.89%
No, they should poof immediately, or in a very short time. 47 38.21%
Optional: Getting into a vehicle should be the same as switching classes for the purposes of mines 2 1.63%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 123. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-04-07, 10:11 PM   [Ignore Me] #1
CutterJohn
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Mines staying active when switching class


Topic came up in the AGN regarding mines, and specifically if they should be kept around if you switch to a different class.

In my opinion, no they shouldn't. Mines are something engineers do, being able to lay mines is one of the points of being one. You don't get to stay cloaked if you switch to another class as a cloaker, and you don't get to keep your med app if you switch from a medic. Personally, I feel it would lead to an absolute ton of mine spam.

Mines do take a bit to lay out though, so I'd be perfectly fine with making them easier to deploy to compensate.


What are your thoughts?

Last edited by CutterJohn; 2012-04-07 at 10:15 PM.
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Old 2012-04-07, 10:15 PM   [Ignore Me] #2
Zulthus
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Re: Mines staying active when switching class


I agree. If you switch classes after you place mines they need to disappear.
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Old 2012-04-07, 10:16 PM   [Ignore Me] #3
Stardouser
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Re: Mines staying active when switching class


I would say they should last for about 20 minutes after a decay-triggering event occurs, such as switching classes or logging out.

Assuming you do not switch classes, what is the limit on how many mines an individual player can deploy?

This falls right in with deploying Galaxies/Sunderers as part of forward bases, a player should not be forced to not pull more vehicles after deploying them, nor should mines instantly disappear either, otherwise it's too restrictive. I can damn well tell you I won't be deploying mines very often if they instantly poof.

A player should not be punished for switching roles/classes in the middle of a battle to respond to changing combat conditions.

Last edited by Stardouser; 2012-04-07 at 10:19 PM.
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Old 2012-04-07, 10:16 PM   [Ignore Me] #4
bullet
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Re: Mines staying active when switching class


Originally Posted by Zulthus View Post
I agree. If you switch classes after you place mines they need to disappear.
No non-engy mines. It was fine last game due to the lack of classes, but it would imbalance the classes if you could use the engy tools while as a medic, etc...
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Old 2012-04-07, 10:19 PM   [Ignore Me] #5
Captain1nsaneo
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Re: Mines staying active when switching class


Mine take a long time to put down and are removed quickly and there's a lot of down time between the two. I don't see a problem with planting mines and then switching to another class, you can't keep placing mines while that class just like you can't cloak even if you hacked the term your changing classes from as a cloaker.

Besides, how much rage will there be if you just finished planting a ton of mines but then you need to swap to MAX to help your empire against air? You can't switch because the mines will disappear but you want to help your allies. What I'm saying is that the engineer will feel short changed and pigeonholed into his role if he must stay as Engy to keep his mines from being removed.

Another situation is when protecting a deployed Gal. You drop your mines and then you want to help with AV work as a Rexo. If the mines are removed you're easy prey for tanks who engage from range.

Really feels like removing mines when class switching would be like removing run mode from MAXs. A massive crippling of the class as people want to be active not passive and will actively shun mines as it prevents them from playing how they want.
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Old 2012-04-07, 10:21 PM   [Ignore Me] #6
Blackwolf
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Re: Mines staying active when switching class


Originally Posted by CutterJohn View Post
Topic came up in the AGN regarding mines, and specifically if they should be kept around if you switch to a different class.

In my opinion, no they shouldn't. Mines are something engineers do, being able to lay mines is one of the points of being one. You don't get to stay cloaked if you switch to another class as a cloaker, and you don't get to keep your med app if you switch from a medic. Personally, I feel it would lead to an absolute ton of mine spam.

Mines do take a bit to lay out though, so I'd be perfectly fine with making them easier to deploy to compensate.


What are your thoughts?
I disagree. Mines are part of fortifications, and technically you switch classes when you die. They were never a major problem in PS1 except for the random minefield in the middle of nowhere because of an LLU run gone wrong.

Considering that Engineers are more of a support role, they shouldn't be forced into staying in that support role just to keep their work from poofing because someone else doesn't know how to hit the breaks.
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Old 2012-04-07, 10:22 PM   [Ignore Me] #7
NewSith
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Re: Mines staying active when switching class


Put mines on a skill, don't make them usable to a new char. I mean in PS1 people were never spamming mines, despite the fact that like 9 people out of 10 had CE as a cert.
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Old 2012-04-07, 10:28 PM   [Ignore Me] #8
CutterJohn
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Re: Mines staying active when switching class


Originally Posted by Stardouser View Post
This falls right in with deploying Galaxies/Sunderers as part of forward bases, a player should not be forced to not pull more vehicles after deploying them, nor should mines instantly disappear either, otherwise it's too restrictive.
This is a fair point, and why i included the 10-20 minute option. You could indeed pull another vehicle after you'd set up an AMS, but you'd lose ownership and it would poof after a few minutes.

A 10-20 minute timer on mines would give the engineer some flexibility, while preventing most people from just spamming mines because they have mines to spam, then ignoring it.


The counterpoint to this, though, is that you can effectively doubleclass if you stick around an area. You get the benefit of an engineers mines, but not the drawback of being an engineer.
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Old 2012-04-07, 10:33 PM   [Ignore Me] #9
Blackwolf
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Re: Mines staying active when switching class


Originally Posted by CutterJohn View Post
The counterpoint to this, though, is that you can effectively doubleclass if you stick around an area. You get the benefit of an engineers mines, but not the drawback of being an engineer.
... No you can't. Laying mines is a slow and tedious process (or it was in PS1). They are extremely situational and not the most effective means of either defense or offense. Also it's about 5% of the Engineer's ability that we're talking about, hardly multi-classing.

This wasn't even a problem back in PS1 where these silly classes didn't even exist. Someone laying minds could turn around and whip out an HA weapon and blow someones head off, then resume their mine laying while in Rexo suit.

Depends on the PS2's equivalent of an ACE. PS1 ACE's were consumed with each mine layed, and took up a considerable chunk of inventory space to lay them. You had to be extremely dedicated to laying mines in order to score any useful levels of kills or whatever it is you want to accomplish.

Last edited by Blackwolf; 2012-04-07 at 10:36 PM.
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Old 2012-04-07, 10:34 PM   [Ignore Me] #10
CutterJohn
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Re: Mines staying active when switching class


Originally Posted by Blackwolf View Post
Considering that Engineers are more of a support role, they shouldn't be forced into staying in that support role just to keep their work from poofing because someone else doesn't know how to hit the breaks.
If you set up a gal or sundy, you won't keep ownership of it if you pull another vehicle. This didn't work in PS1 for lodes or AMSs. Yes, they stayed around for a bit, but would poof in a few minutes. And, i may be mistaken, but I don't think you got SEP if you gave up ownership either.

Last edited by CutterJohn; 2012-04-07 at 10:39 PM.
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Click here to go to the next VIP post in this thread.   Old 2012-04-07, 10:42 PM   [Ignore Me] #11
Malorn
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Re: Mines staying active when switching class


I think they should stay around for a reasonable time after switching classes or 15 min after logging off, whichever comes first. It also depends on how many mines someone could place. 30 minutes after switching seems reasonable to me, but switching back to engineer would cancel the timer.

A simple solution might be to give all CE a max duration regardless, like 1 hour. Makes it easy to code and easy to understand.
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Old 2012-04-07, 10:42 PM   [Ignore Me] #12
Shogun
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Re: Mines staying active when switching class


i suppose mines will eat ressources, so they should stay, once deployed!

if you paid for them, they have to do their duty.

i liked the ps1 system where mines and other deployables would stay active and xp-linked to the player, as long as he stayed on the continent and a 15 minute decay timer started at logoff or cont switch.
same for the last pulled vehicle.
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Old 2012-04-07, 10:48 PM   [Ignore Me] #13
CutterJohn
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Re: Mines staying active when switching class


Originally Posted by Malorn View Post
but switching back to engineer would cancel the timer.
Too easy to work around. Whenever you die, just switch to engineer, then immediately switch to what you were picking.

Theres also the fact that most drivers will be engineers.


A global CE time limit could possibly be the easiest solution.
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Old 2012-04-07, 10:50 PM   [Ignore Me] #14
Nalan
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Re: Mines staying active when switching class


They should stick around after you die and switch classes, just like in PS1, they were enough of a deterant, especially for cloakers and/or small squads of back hackers. Besides it'll give enough reason for people to carry emp grenades and/or have person with the emp ability with a command tool to run in and disable the mines, plus its a cool effect
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Last edited by Nalan; 2012-04-08 at 07:05 AM.
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Old 2012-04-07, 10:52 PM   [Ignore Me] #15
Stardouser
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Re: Mines staying active when switching class


I hate to say this but do we even know whether tanks are going to have some kind of thermal vision that makes mines stick out like a sore thumb, and, combined with that, if mines can be shot and destroyed?
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