Will everyone have access to some AV/anti-MAX weaponry?

[Talek Krell]

I'm not sure whether I want infantry to be effective against maxes.

I remember eventually reaching the conclusion in PS1 that maxes weren't very good at infantry fights, because it seemed like there were always a bunch of people running around with decis/AV and HA. Which was odd, because that was supposed to be where they excelled I thought.

[Redshift]

Originally Posted by Talek Krell

I'm not sure whether I want infantry to be effective against maxes.

I remember eventually reaching the conclusion in PS1 that maxes weren't very good at infantry fights, because it seemed like there were always a bunch of people running around with decis/AV and HA. Which was odd, because that was supposed to be where they excelled I thought.

MAX's are infantry, and regardless if squishes couldn't kill MAX's what do you think the inside of bases would look like? 200 MAX's and not a REK in sight

[Sifer2]

Why should Engineers be the AV class? Because they are in Battlefield? Cause in that case Assault should be our medic as well. Since Assault is the medic in Battlefield 3 lol.

Personally the way i'm hoping it goes is all the Infantry class's have some kind of AV option. The heavy assault guys might get the rocket launchers. Snipers might get some anti-armor rounds. Infiltrators maybe get mines or detpacks. An if its done right choosing to take some AV in your loadout should come at the expense of something else useful.

[TRex]

I sincerely hope there will be access to av /anti-max , albeit you need to spec in it to reap the full benefits.

My concern is with the possible inclusion of headshots into the game. One thing for sure is that if there are headshots , I forsee tonnes of maxes in the game just to counter this one thing . One thing forses the other .

[exLupo]

Originally Posted by Redshift

200 MAX's and not a REK in sight

And nobody to res or repair the MAXes either. This leads to role inter-dependency. MAXes would be the central offense unit while small arms support units kept them up and provided role flexibility that MAX suis wouldn't allow. That was the point back in beta. MAXes were as scary as they were limited. They would eat your face off but once you were dead, they'd sit around not hacking or repairing. They required support units. Now they're paper tigers. Great dps but not that much more than HA and can be killed very easily with the standard loadout Deci.

I find it odd that a unit that can revive, hack and repair is also functionally stronger than a unit that is dedicated to offense against a single target. I blame cert proliferation and the mass tree combining that dev did right before launch.

One thing to remember about PS2, there will be no certs. Some items are unlocked but there won't be the cert wall to be used as a balancing foil. In time, the only thing stopping a rexo/ha/a.med/eng/a.hack from existing is spec based class barriers. When we get our first taste of how dev if doing loadout limits, we'll know if supersoldiers make it in or not.

And also who will and will not pre order.

edit: Re assaults vs engineers. What I'm expecting, and this is just conjecture, I imagine Rexo will have a heavy and light back slot. Light items (ma, bd, goo tube) for light or heavy and Heavy items (HA, AV) limited to the Heavy slot only. I'm thinking that swapping gear out of your inventory won't even be possible and swapping gear off of corpses will be a straight slot swap.

[Redshift]

Originally Posted by exLupo

That was the point back in beta. MAXes were as scary as they were limited. They would eat your face off but once you were dead, they'd sit around not hacking or repairing.

MAXs were broke in beta, everyone knows it and wouldn't go back to it. A pounder could hold a doorway forever on its own

[exLupo]

Originally Posted by Redshift

MAXs were broke in beta, everyone knows it and wouldn't go back to it. A pounder could hold a doorway forever on its own

Strawman. This has nothing to do with marginalizing all MAX units.

[Redshift]

Originally Posted by exLupo

Strawman. This has nothing to do with marginalizing all MAX units.

It's not strawman, if you make MAX's all powerful killing machines people will sit in them, just like they did with BFR's, people sit in them now and they're not exactly overpowered atm

[exLupo]

Originally Posted by Redshift

It's not strawman

Actually, yes. That was a textbook strawman. You used the argument "One facet of one MAX was overpowered and bad design" to attack my argument of "All MAXes are marginalized by the over-availability of man-portable AV". You used a only vaguely related argument that you could knock down easily, the strawman, to attempt to discredit my statement.

if you make MAX's all powerful killing machines people will sit in them, just like they did with BFR's, people sit in them now and they're not exactly overpowered atm

No, you are correct. Neither are overpowered. Both are woefully underpowered. BFRs are a sad byproduct of a neat idea gone horribly awry and should be removed altogether. MAXes are a sad byproduct of a neat idea stomped on by cert proliferation.

The MAX was always intended to be the alpha unit in non-vehicle combat. With how easy it is for self healing, self repairing units to defeat them with a number of weapons, they have been, as stated before, marginalized. This is nowhere more obvious than the AI MAX. Intent: Powerful vs specific unit types. Result: Weaker than the units they are specifically designed to counter. This is contradictory at its core.

You seem to be arguing that Infantry should be more powerful than Anti-Infantry units. Is this what you're saying because this is how the game currently is. It's like medicine resistant infections and spray resistant bugs. A clear reversal of the intended design. If I'm wrong and you think Anti-Infantry units should be stronger than Infantry units, please say so.