Pageant contestant disqualified over strange circumstances. - Page 2

Firefly · 2012-03-28, 11:28 AM

I can understand why she was disqualified - she fibbed on the application. Same thing could happen if you lied on a resume or job application. Do I agree with the decision? Not really. I mean, I respect that they have their rules and that they upheld them. That doesn't make it popular or right.

Quovatis · 2012-03-28, 12:08 PM

Private organizations have the right to discriminate if they want to. The Boy Scouts do it too.

Vash02 · 2012-03-28, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by Firefly

I can understand why she was disqualified - she fibbed on the application. Same thing could happen if you lied on a resume or job application. Do I agree with the decision? Not really. I mean, I respect that they have their rules and that they upheld them. That doesn't make it popular or right.

Read the OP, she was banned because she wasnt born a pure female.

Hamma · 2012-03-28, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by Quovatis

Private organizations have the right to discriminate if they want to. The Boy Scouts do it too.

This is correct and if I am not mistaken it was recently upheld.

Vecha · 2012-03-28, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by Warborn

If she were born a female and were disqualified for being a lesbian, would your opinion be any different? Why or why not?

While I see what you are getting at(Both deal with how someone lives their life), I think there is a difference between being homosexual and having a sex change.

ItsTheSheppy · 2012-03-28, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by Vecha

While I see what you are getting at(Both deal with how someone lives their life), I think there is a difference between being homosexual and having a sex change.

Aside from the obvious difference of one involving a medical procedure, what other differences are there?

Hamma · 2012-03-28, 01:05 PM

I did not realize this was Canada so I'm not sure if the laws are the same there. I would assume that they are. Regardless of whether or not you agree with this issue it is a private organization and she was not born a woman. If they decide to ban her from the pageant imo it's within their rights to do so.

Warborn · 2012-03-28, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by Vecha

While I see what you are getting at(Both deal with how someone lives their life), I think there is a difference between being homosexual and having a sex change.

What I'm getting at is that whether she's genetically male or a homosexual, the pageant is about people dressing up and parading around to look the prettiest. Her chromosomes or sexual orientation or favorite colour are not relevant to her ability to look like an attractive woman. The "must be born female" rule is arbitrary, and something that people like Traak would have written because they're bigoted shitheads, not because there's any practical reason for it to exist.

And yeah, she lied on her application or whatever by saying she was born female (although according to her she was, albeit physically male), but good for her, I say. Discrimination is something people should not be obliged to play along with. Hopefully her defiance creates a national thing about this. Maybe it will be the case that Miss Universe Canada is found to be in violation of Section 15 of the Canadian Charter of Human Rights and Freedoms or something.

Originally Posted by Hamma

I did not realize this was Canada so I'm not sure if the laws are the same there. I would assume that they are.

We have had gay marriage, unrestricted abortions, and women serving as infantry in the military for many years now. Our laws when it comes to certain things are considerably different than those of the USA's.

Sgt Shultz · 2012-03-28, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by Hamma

I did not realize this was Canada so I'm not sure if the laws are the same there. I would assume that they are. Regardless of whether or not you agree with this issue it is a private organization and she was not born a woman. If they decide to ban her from the pageant imo it's within their rights to do so.

If it was the US it would be a simple matter of it being at the discretion of the private organizations rules. However Canada being that nice little authoritarian country to the north of us, I imagine the wrath of "social justice" will be visited upon them.

Quovatis · 2012-03-28, 01:34 PM

So in Canada, the Boy Scouts must allow women, atheists, and gays to join? I may not agree with them, but private organizations should be able to choose their members as they see fit.

ItsTheSheppy · 2012-03-28, 01:35 PM

Originally Posted by Sgt Shultz

If it was the US it would be a simple matter of it being at the discretion of the private organizations rules. However Canada being that nice little authoritarian country to the north of us, I imagine the wrath of "social justice" will be visited upon them.

Those poor, oppressed bigots.

Warborn · 2012-03-28, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by Sgt Shultz

If it was the US it would be a simple matter of it being at the discretion of the private organizations rules. However Canada being that nice little authoritarian country to the north of us, I imagine the wrath of "social justice" will be visited upon them.

I guess we just have a different attitude toward equality and non-discrimination here in Canada than in the US. If it makes you feel any better, though, we treat our First Nations populations like shit and we still allow for publicly funded religious schools (typically Roman Catholic). Also, it's illegal to utter "hate speech", so for example if Traak came to Canada and spoke his mind about the devil-gays and those darn women not doing what they're told, he'd probably be arrested. So we do still have some pretty shitty laws in respect to certain things.

Originally Posted by Quovatis

So in Canada, the Boy Scouts must allow women, atheists, and gays to join?

Yes. We don't allow people to be discriminated against based on these things. Under the law we consider people equal regardless of their gender, ethnicity, orientation, and so forth. Although because our scout group is for boys and girls, it's simply called Scouts Canada, or l'Association des Scouts du Canada.

Sgt Shultz · 2012-03-28, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by ItsTheSheppy

Those poor, oppressed bigots.

In the US we stand up for the rights of poor oppressed bigots not because we like bigots, but because sooner or later your own hide might be subject to the same manner oppression.

One can have a distaste, dislike, or even loathing for a private organizations rules and still defend their rights.

Warborn · 2012-03-28, 02:47 PM

Is it really a right for someone to discriminate against other people on the basis of their gender, ethnicity, or whatever? Is that something that deserves defending?

Sgt Shultz · 2012-03-28, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by Warborn

Is it really a right for someone to discriminate against other people on the basis of their gender, ethnicity, or whatever? Is that something that deserves defending?

You have a right to do with your property as you see fit provided you do not directly harm someone else, yes?