Why I quit PS1 - Page 2

Buggsy · 2012-07-08, 09:04 AM

Originally Posted by Graywolves

I disagree. OS makes things more complicated.

OS simplifies the game, doesn't make anything more complicated.

You want your AMS to not be located ( or at least have an extra) in case it is found and OS'd. When loading a galaxy or forming up in general you want to be quick and not sit in an area too long or else you get OS'd. It's something you have to think about and expect.

Toss concentration of force tactic out the window.

There is a problem in how abundant Orbital Strikes seem to be.

If something is crap you don't balance it by reducing the number of crap droppings, you clean it up and remove crap.

Originally Posted by StumpyTheOzzie

Oh god... I'm sorry, I shouldn't laugh. English is my first language and I can't speak any others and blah blah blah

That just really hit my funnybone. I'm not trying to be a dick or insult anyone.

Anyway, to the OP, I pretty much agree with everything you said. That and the fact that there are that many engy/medics out there that unless you kill immediately, you may as well not bother. There's another thread about the OS being bad. Seems like the people who have OS capabilities like the idea of them and everyone who is only on the receiving end of them hates them. Big surprise.

I was rarely killed by an OS, that's not my beef with them, my beef with the OS is that they reduce tactics to only one tactic: FRONTAL ASSAULT.

Doing Frontal Assault gets old after a while; like 1 hour.

Originally Posted by QuantumMechanic

The not-so-fun gameplay that Buggsy describes happens when almost half the playerbase has CR5. Which is pretty much what the game is like right now.

OSes happen *all the friggin time*. One after another. It's not particularly fun, but it's what happens with a game that has been around for 9 years.

But the EMP explosion from the bang bus - that's the vehicle's special ability. That's intended functionality.

I'm glad I didn't stick around to see the "bang bus", glad I unsubbed before that.

*rolls eyes*

Why do players feel entitled to victory simply by logging on?

Originally Posted by PrISM

Keep in mind how old the game is and the sheer number of CR5s that there are now. The EMP itself is not a bad game mechanic. It's the simple fact that there are so many of them.

The EMP OS is the worse offender out of the 2 types of OS.

Runlikethewind · 2012-07-07, 06:36 PM

Originally Posted by Buggsy

I am interested in tactics, counter tactics, counter-counter tactics, counter-counter-counter tactics, counter-counter-counter-counter tactics... OS reduces tactics, it simplifies the game, it dumbs it down. I am against reducing tactics, like spawning on top of the squad leader (yuck).

If this is true then you should have known the OS's where coming as they are a part of the game and should have had a counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counter strategy in place. Like maybe wait outside the base for the OS to go off then come in and attack them from behind as they all run down the backdoor into the base or something.

And did anyone else notice how all the examples in the OP where missing the most important strategic element in PS1, that is A SQUAD? You're complaining about tactics and your trying to defend a backdoor all by yourself? Really?

Buggsy · 2012-07-07, 06:46 PM

Originally Posted by Runlikethewind

If this is true then you should have known the OS's where coming as they are a part of the game and should have had a counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counter strategy in place. Like maybe wait outside the base for the OS to go off then come in and attack them from behind as they all run down the backdoor into the base or something.

And did anyone else notice how all the examples in the OP where missing the most important strategic element in PS1, that is A SQUAD? You're complaining about tactics and your trying to defend a backdoor all by yourself? Really?

A) There is no counter tactic to pushing the button.

B) It was an EMP OS which took out my deployables, and it completely destroyed the delaying tactic.

C) In real war defensive fortifications requires less soldiers to defend an area. That's what defense is all about.

Originally Posted by SixShooter

Wow man, you're starting a lot of angry threads today that are all pretty much about the same thing

Have you even seen how squad spawning works? It's not like BF3 where they just appear, you can see the drop pods from a mile away and it takes a decent amount of time to hit the ground. Also, the cooldown timer before you can do it again is pretty long so if you die right after squad spawning you'll have to find a hard spawn point.

I know you like to use the term "dumbing it down" alot but maybe you should play the game before you freak out about it. Just a suggestion man

So what if you can spot them a mile away, you could also spot someone a mile away in BF2142 but that didn't matter.

So what if there's a cooldown timer, how did the cooldown timer work out with OS? Not very good since everyone and their pet hamster had one.

SixShooter · 2012-07-07, 07:24 PM

Originally Posted by Buggsy

So what if you can spot them a mile away, you could also spot someone a mile away in BF2142 but that didn't matter.

So what if there's a cooldown timer, how did the cooldown timer work out with OS? Not very good since everyone and their pet hamster had one.

Tactically this was a brilliant move to go with the "so what" defensive manuver here. Well played sir

I have been playing a fair amount of PS1 lately and I rarely get OS'd. Maybe it's because I'm not camping out waiting to get OS's while trying to delay the enemy. Did you know that a really good way to delay the enemy is to kill them and make them have to respawn?. When I do happen to eat an OS I certainly don't throw a fit and rage quit. I simply respawn and get back to the battle.

I'm still not sure why you're so mad about a game you've never played. Maybe PS2 is just not the game for you. I don't know which games are out there that can cater to elitists who a above such dumbed down games as PS2 but I wish you well on your journey. Remeber man, it's just a game

Buggsy · 2012-07-07, 07:49 PM

Originally Posted by SixShooter

Tactically this was a brilliant move to go with the "so what" defensive manuver here. Well played sir

I have been playing a fair amount of PS1 lately and I rarely get OS'd.

Again if you actually read my post, I am complaining about the ElectroMagneticPulse OS, not the other one. The ElectroMagneticPulse OS has a much shorter cooldown and much larger radius.

SixShooter · 2012-07-08, 02:46 AM

Originally Posted by Buggsy

Again if you actually read my post, I am complaining about the ElectroMagneticPulse OS, not the other one. The ElectroMagneticPulse OS has a much shorter cooldown and much larger radius.

OK man, I guess I'll play your game for another round

There seems to be some confusion on what an OS is. An OS is an Orbital Strike that comes from the sky (a satillite in orbit) that is a giant lazer that destroys everthing in its path. A CR5 EMP is not an OS. It is generated from the CUD (Command Uplink Device) and actually has roughly the same radius as a CR5 OS (I know this from 9 yeats of experience since it's hard to pull out a tape measure with these things).

My point is that you're talking about two very different things. An OS is an OS and an EMP is an EMP, both of which are very valid tactics. It seems that your gripe is that there is a counter to your equally valid tactic. This could have been equally accomplished with a few guys throwing jammer nades. Sure it sucks that you spent the time to lay out CE everywhere only to have it EMP'd but seriously, that happens all the time in so many different games.

Your points just don't hold up and I say that with no malice or uglyness. I enjoy these discussions but I just think that you're wrong. Niether one (OS or EMP) can be considered a win button because it is a valid tactic on the field of war, deal with it (also you can just get out of the way of an OS, I've seen so many that hit nobody).

It has been hinted (or confirmed, correct me if I'm wrong) that there will be a type of ES OS for PS2. I have heard nothing about the CR5 abilities and whether or not they will have an EMP as you have described for PS1.

I find it odd that you feel that there will be no coordinated tactictics and you don't have the desire to come up with new tactics with the provided mechanics of the game. In direct response to an earlier post of yous - squad spawn works absolutly nothing like squad spawning on any other game I've played (disclaimer - I have not played every game ever made but have played a fair amount of MW3 and BF3 abd have found the PS2 version to be quite different).

Combining the AMS with the Galaxy adds a whole new dynamic and your argument that there will be no frontline is just wrong. If you can't play the game and discover new tactics and adapt to a new style of gameplay, I actually feel bad for you because you're going to miss out on some good times. Those of us who want that will make that happen with the gameplay mechanics that are provided just as we did with PS1.

It sounds to me like you did not like the fist game and will really not like the second game. From your OP it sounds like you really wanted something to happen (delaying the enemy without killing them???) but an EMP ruined your fun and you rage quit and unsubbed.

I really don't understand the hatred for "modern FPS" games. I grew up on PC games and console games and love them both. I have had a great time the last few years playing on Xbox Live and PSN with games like COD and BF (and many other genres). The last time I checked, games were more about having fun and less about being elitist and having to rant about how overly comlicated game mechanics have been simplified or "dumbed down".

Get over it and move on and come up with new tactics (that's my plan and I'm super excided!!!!) or move on to a game that will fit your needs. I have nothin but love for ya man and I hope you can figure it out.

Runlikethewind · 2012-07-07, 07:55 PM

Originally Posted by Buggsy

A) There is no counter tactic to pushing the button.

B) It was an EMP OS which took out my deployables, and it completely destroyed the delaying tactic.

C) In real war defensive fortifications requires less soldiers to defend an area. That's what defense is all about.

I don't know. You talk about tactics and counter tactics then you give up and quit when someone else comes up with a counter to your counter. Its a game not real life, you play the rules of the game not some fake idea about how the game should be. You want to delay them? why not deploy an ams right outside the backdoor? As soon as they roll up they'll do the same thing anyone in PS1 does when they see an enemy ams, the shoot it, buying you several seconds of delay. Then they OS you're deployables, just like you should have known they would, and rush the backdoor. And what do they find on the other side? A pile of boomers. You don't even need to be on the trigger, just seeing those boomers will cause them to stop and deal with them (and I'm pretty sure they would not have been taken out by the OS since they would be inside, although I could be wrong). Point is, if you're so into strategy and counter strategy why quit when you fail, why not come up with a new strategy? Even if they didn't OS a good squad would have sent in some reavers or something to take out your deployables moments before they pull up. Another counter strategy to your strategy. Really what I see in your op is this http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playi...-survivor.html Scrub.

Kalbuth · 2012-07-07, 08:23 PM

Originally Posted by Runlikethewind

I don't know. You talk about tactics and counter tactics then you give up and quit when someone else comes up with a counter to your counter. Its a game not real life, you play the rules of the game not some fake idea about how the game should be. You want to delay them? why not deploy an ams right outside the backdoor? As soon as they roll up they'll do the same thing anyone in PS1 does when they see an enemy ams, the shoot it, buying you several seconds of delay. Then they OS you're deployables, just like you should have known they would, and rush the backdoor. And what do they find on the other side? A pile of boomers. You don't even need to be on the trigger, just seeing those boomers will cause them to stop and deal with them (and I'm pretty sure they would not have been taken out by the OS since they would be inside, although I could be wrong). Point is, if you're so into strategy and counter strategy why quit when you fail, why not come up with a new strategy? Even if they didn't OS a good squad would have sent in some reavers or something to take out your deployables moments before they pull up. Another counter strategy to your strategy. Really what I see in your op is this http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playi...-survivor.html Scrub.

When you compare some thinking in placement, time taken, certifications involved, etc... to build the defence, and ... getting your CUD out and clicking on a button.... it's rather obvious.
The EMP/OS thing has been put in place for the lazies.
Add to this the current availability of all this due to how stupid the CR system is, and you get frustration by people seeing their work easily dispatched without even more than 2 seconds of thinking and a click of a mouse. It's not like OS or EMP is anything advanced (please, don't even come up with the term "tactic" for this).

It's rather strange from a game design perspective, to put in place a whole content on defense and deployables setup, taking time to do, all this to give all tools to nullify all in seconds without an ounce of effort. Well, if you don't see how stupid it is (again, from a game design perspective)... I don't know. Just an example for me of "catering to the lowest common denominator" ("Oh, noes, taking out all these deployables is going to take sooo much time!!! ** sob sob **" )

Karrade · 2012-07-10, 06:48 AM

At times I played like your playstyle setting up CE, and have to admit I stopped doing it as much when OS's were becoming very common, as a clever player would OS the BD before making a run on it. CE became more useful in the CY (under cover), motion sensors around entry points, or mines on bridges etc.

Prior to this I would mine behind the trees as well, or rather just as the corners, so when people move around them to see if there is a mine the otherside, they are already dead. - This works in many situations, with corners/walls/doors etc.

So yeah the BD became pretty much OS food, and not as worth CE'ing, unless it was just a zerg you were facing.

I don't know what the layout of the PS2 bases will be like yet, as to whether CEing will be worth it in PS2. Depends on layout, how much CE you can deploy, vs how much OS's cost. For PS2 - If OS's take out all CE (even when spread out), move to something else, like a medic/gal driver/gunner if you like support

Buggsy · 2012-07-07, 08:32 PM

Originally Posted by Runlikethewind

I don't know. You talk about tactics and counter tactics then you give up and quit when someone else comes up with a counter to your counter.

Pushing a button is not a valid tactic, it's an I-win button.

The OS is a game of chess where every piece is a queen.

The OS is a game of stratego where every piece is a 1.

The OS is a game of battleship where every peg has a ship in it.

The OS is a game of Monopoly where every place is Boardwalk.

Get how lame it is? The OS negates every single tactic until the only valid tactic you have left is the OS. I hear that's how PS1 plays these days.

PrISM · 2012-07-07, 09:06 PM

Originally Posted by Buggsy

Get how lame it is? The OS negates every single tactic until the only valid tactic you have left is the OS. I hear that's how PS1 plays these days.

Keep in mind how old the game is and the sheer number of CR5s that there are now. The EMP itself is not a bad game mechanic. It's the simple fact that there are so many of them.

QuantumMechanic · 2012-07-07, 10:25 PM

The not-so-fun gameplay that Buggsy describes happens when almost half the playerbase has CR5. Which is pretty much what the game is like right now.

OSes happen *all the friggin time*. One after another. It's not particularly fun, but it's what happens with a game that has been around for 9 years.

But the EMP explosion from the bang bus - that's the vehicle's special ability. That's intended functionality.

igster · 2012-07-08, 01:04 AM

Although I agree that CE is pretty weak in this game... I think that it is intentional and to some extent I think that it isn't far off the right balance. Locking down entire squads with a few deployable defences for 5 minutes even basically slows the game down massively and in general it would lead to stalemates in the game much more than now.
It is about evolving your gameplay to counter the counters. CE is still about the most fun to play in the game - I've been advanced engineer for ages and it adds a nice dimension. Come up against a good player with good CE skills and it is pretty harsh.
Yes an EMP does take out all your carefully laid out traps. But imagine if there was simply no way to clear all of these traps other than to take your troops with thumpers and emp grenades. Every base would take 20 minutes to simply clear CE and taking court yards would be next to impossible.
In the situation you describe (1) the EMP going off and (2) a simple /broadcast would bring reinforcements to the back door to stop the breach. You've slowed them down and forced them to use a big 'Haaaaaai' EMP that every in the base can hear has alerted the defenders to where the attack is coming from.
There are lots more situations where strong CE is awesome defensively. Not only for possibly getting kills, but also to alert defending troops about the movements of the enemy.

You should have stuck with it. There is much more fun to be had with CE, finding new ways to trick, trap, delay and annoy the enemy. Think about use of boomers to counter EMPs. If a troop lands at a back door and emp's... any boomer they are standing on gets set off and hopefully they have dropped out of a plane right onto your carefully positioned boomer. Bang play your cards right and its the entire galaxy squad in one hit.

Dagron · 2012-07-08, 01:26 AM

Originally Posted by PrISM

Keep in mind how old the game is and the sheer number of CR5s that there are now. The EMP itself is not a bad game mechanic. It's the simple fact that there are so many of them.

Originally Posted by QuantumMechanic

The not-so-fun gameplay that Buggsy describes happens when almost half the playerbase has CR5. Which is pretty much what the game is like right now.

OSes happen *all the friggin time*. One after another. It's not particularly fun, but it's what happens with a game that has been around for 9 years.

The long run is something that should be factored in, just because the game is old and everyone had time to reach the top command lvl isn't an excuse for it to happen every second, it's still lame.

Jamini · 2012-07-08, 02:36 AM

Just going to throw a fun little counter-tactic to EMPs for the OP.

Lay boomers between your mines when defending areas that get hotdrops. The EMP will set them off and kill anyone in the minefield, often taking out the entire squad that dropped (or at least enough of them so that you can clean up with a punisher or ES rifle.)

Perhaps you just haven't thought enough about counter-tactics to command abilities?