Unions

Hamma · 2012-04-19, 10:41 AM

The solution isn't unions that's for sure. Sadly the solution is a total change of mindset which isn't going to happen.

Being a Police Officer, a Teacher, or a Firerfighter are all very noble professions that are important to society. But to go in and use a union to try and get rich at doing it when there is no money to go around is just totally silly.

I worked in education as a computer tech for the first 10 years or so of my career and I made pennies. But I didn't complain because sadly that's what I was stuck with. I pulled my eject button and moved into private industry.

ItsTheSheppy · 2012-04-19, 11:02 AM

The idea of the "rich" teacher or the "rich" police office is a fantasy I find surprising otherwise rational people maintain in their heads as fact. I have never known a cop or a teacher or a firefighter who made a reasonable living wage. I grew up the son of a cop and a nurse. We did not live a particularly glitzy lifestyle. Around where I live, the starting pay for a full-fledged teacher is about 30-35k a year. I make more than that, but I live in a one-bedroom apartment, with no dependents, and I just barely get by. And I don't even have a cable bill!

It's also important to remember that a lot of these folks aren't exactly spoiled for choice in the job market. Not everyone can be a millionaire; someone has to clean the toilets, or mine the coal, or drive the taxi. Somebody has to do it, and it always seems like the people most angry about those people demanding better pay are folks who enjoy the services provided by them, but who prefer not to do the jobs themselves. I'll tell you one thing: I like driving on roads, but I certainly don't want to pave them.

Why do we live in this culture where there's the feeling that they deserve to be paid meager wages? That they somehow haven't earned more money than, say, me, or you, or the next guy? Who set those rules? In my opinion, you deserve to make the money you can make, however you make it; if they unionize, and force better wages, good for them. Why is that a bad thing?

Warborn · 2012-04-19, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by Hamma

The solution isn't unions that's for sure. Sadly the solution is a total change of mindset which isn't going to happen.

Being a Police Officer, a Teacher, or a Firerfighter are all very noble professions that are important to society. But to go in and use a union to try and get rich at doing it when there is no money to go around is just totally silly.

I worked in education as a computer tech for the first 10 years or so of my career and I made pennies. But I didn't complain because sadly that's what I was stuck with. I pulled my eject button and moved into private industry.

You've been sold a lie here I'm afraid. Paying your teachers a decent wage isn't going to bankrupt the country. Somehow Canada (or at least Ontario, Alberta -- aka. Little Texas -- might be different) manages to sustain teachers which receive something like 2x the amount that US teachers make. And it isn't about "getting rich", it's about making the profession attractive to intelligent and capable people.

But, hey, I dunno, maybe it isn't important to try and draw the best people into professions like teacher or police officer. Maybe the people who struggled through crappy colleges and barely scraped by and can't get a job doing anything else are really the ones you want teaching your kids and keeping you safe.

Hamma · 2012-04-19, 06:53 PM

Originally Posted by Warborn

You've been sold a lie here I'm afraid. Paying your teachers a decent wage isn't going to bankrupt the country. Somehow Canada (or at least Ontario, Alberta -- aka. Little Texas -- might be different) manages to sustain teachers which receive something like 2x the amount that US teachers make. And it isn't about "getting rich", it's about making the profession attractive to intelligent and capable people.

But, hey, I dunno, maybe it isn't important to try and draw the best people into professions like teacher or police officer. Maybe the people who struggled through crappy colleges and barely scraped by and can't get a job doing anything else are really the ones you want teaching your kids and keeping you safe.

You are assuming I think they shouldn't be paid well. I don't think that at all.. but I don't think the answers are a union raping the city govt for all they have and taking money from other important things like fixing roads and infrastructure.

The issue is mindset. The issue is that we don't pay these teachers what they deserve and shitty teachers slide by because of unions.

They should be paid a fair amount of money no question at all. But Unions aren't going to solve the issue it has to be a total change in how we operate.