Station Fee for Outfit Creation

[Dart]

Bane, read my post at the bottom of the last page. There are more side effects to this than i think you're anticipating. You would see clans of THOUSANDS effectively nerfing smaller more selective groups. Is that what you want?

[Tatwi]

Originally Posted by Sledgecrushr

Outfits are a value added item to planetside2.

No.

1. "Outfits" or "Guilds" are not a "value added item" in any other SOE game, so why would they magically start being one in Planetside 2?

2. Everyone knows that large organizations are more effective in combat, especially since it has been mentioned in nearly every Planetside 2 video created. The most important reason why this is the case is because these organizations persist after log out. If "groups" are free and "guilds" are pay only, then...

What you're asking for is "pay2win".

[PredatorFour]

Bad idea i reckon. One which will alienate alot of the playerbase. As its going more mainstream it will inevitably attract more of the casual gamer types who will miss out on the best aspect of the game because of said idea.

Where do you stop ??? 5 pounds for 10 - 15 outfit, 10 pounds for 20 - 25, 20 pounds for 40 - 45, 500 pounds for 1000 strong outfit?

I know they need many avenues to make money for the game but please dont do this devs

[Dagron]

Originally Posted by Nemeses

once the guild is up the subscribtion can run out, the guild will still be fomed

Yeah, i meant that having to stay sub'd would be very prohibitive, but if it was the way you put it i'd have no problem with it. Many other people might still not feel that way though, specially those who like the game and want to support it but can't afford much (i suppose they can save up for a while before making their outfit though).

Originally Posted by Nemeses

I am completely apposed to the idea of charging for outfit size, that will just create way to many problems

I usually throw my suggestions around to see what people think about them, i know every way to do things have problems. Can you be more specific about the ones you see in it? (i genuinely want to know)

Originally Posted by GrayWave

"2 member outfits" have no less a right to exist than 50-member outfits. If it's just an average person and their roommate, and they're the only ones they know who are interested in PS2, why make playing together uphill and prohibitive for them?

I agree with this.

Yes those tiny outfits that hardly matter may annoy many of you, but the people who make them won't join a bigger outfit to play in a different way than how they were going to in their own little outfit. If one big outfit will demant too much of them they'll leave for another big outfit that doesn't, if they don't find one they'll just play outfitless.
Having a big price to make an outfit will just make them not pay that price, if they were going to screw around they'll still do it... there will be very little difference.

On the other hand i agree that free outfits are also a bad option, that would allow everyone to have their own outfit or worse: anyone could make 10 outfits just for the lols, effectively stealing names (now that's annoying).

Which is why i'm insisting on a small fee instead, it would help prevent some of those issues, but wouldn't be too discouraging to people who seriously want their own persistent little group.
 

[Baneblade]

Originally Posted by Stew

i said everything in the Quote

The problem I see with your position is that grouping is still free... outfits aren't required tbh. Unless you just hate being bothered by recruiters.

[Bags]

Originally Posted by DjEclipse

^This. You want to play with your mates and not pay? Make a squad. Simple.

Outfits give benefits.

Outfits are required.

[GuyFawkes]

If you were doing this to simply support eq2 , rather than charging to make an outfit (or as well as) maybe it would make more sense to charge sc for joining an outfit?

I dont think either would work since it would alienate new players.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by Baneblade

The problem I see with your position is that grouping is still free... outfits aren't required tbh. Unless you just hate being bothered by recruiters.

Outfits is needed since you have no way to join or know where your friends are ! Their is NO friendlist features so far in the game and no way to see where your friends are instead of having a (( groups )) call an OUTFITS


I have no issue agains Smalls clans and smalls group of friends or even huge groups of friends FREEPLAYERS outfit creations !

I dont want to (( controles )) others like some of you want !

IAM an NC New conglomerate a free thinker !

IAM An NC Not a opressor and i want people to be FREE to group up, to makes outfits with their friends and also not be bound in a single outfit just because they have paid for it and they do not want to merge with another just because they already paid for it !

IAM An NC i have no issue agains those who dont have money to pay for the game or for the oufits creation and i dont judge them !

I will pay for stuff in game i already spend 75 $ on the game and have 7500 station cash already and i want to spend those on cool cosmetic stuff embleme , decale , Mag , skins , camo , blingbling and so on !

This is where i want to spend my money Not on my oufit creation , not on forcing others to pay to regroup or froce them to join my outfit because i have more money then them

If people join my outfit its because they will like our mentality and skills thats all ! Not because i can afford an outfit creation

Iam an NC for life Free thinker , and iam all for Free players who gonna make my play sessions better because they will ad spice to my game and Epic numbers !

[Arcticus]

This is an important thread due to its possible implications.

Let me start by saying that I'm in a large outfit and I'm old (by gaming standards) and am the target audience for both subscriptions and microtransactions.

I don't think one-time outfit fees are going to provide much revenue for SOE. I imagine that the price that would provide them maximum revenue is in the $10-$20...and closer to $10. Any higher than that, and only serious outfits will be formed. SO, what percentage of PS2's revenues would come from outfit fees? I imagine less than 1% of even the first year's revenue would be outfit fees. After the first year, dramatically less outfits will be formed.

But of those non-serious "jokefits" for whom this fee creates a decision as to whether players will remain in the game, I think maybe greater than 1% would be affected by this. Granted, these would not be the higher revenue players, these would be lower revenue and freebie players WHEN THEY FIRST START PLAYING PS2. But let's remember that freebie players aren't just leeches; in SOE's F2P model, these freebies are content. It's like an iceberg where those of us who pay are the visible part of the iceberg above the water line but we need that 9/10 that's under the surface to support us as content. If their numbers go down (or don't materialize), the game fails.

The experience of these particular players needs to be as free (moneywise) as possible in the very beginning..the equivalent of "1st month is free" on subscriptions. We should not be forcing these people into paying for an important part of their initial experience in the game.

Will a large portion of these free-to-create jokefits fail? Of course! Then they'll get recycled into other outfits, big and small. Are a lot of these outfits small groups that can make do with the functionality of a squad? Yes. But they want to make their own outfits. Realize, though, that this fee would hit the prospective young outfit leader more than the other members. Chances are this prospective leader wanted to be an outfit leader more than the others wanted to be outfit members. He wanted to spend time filling/naming ranks and all that. "So what?" Well, chances are that this non-serious joker, who obviously isn't as organized and dedicated as leaders of the bigger, more effective and experienced outfits, tends to have a bigger influence on whether his friends/coworkers will join or remain in the game. So the small one-time fees will have a tendency to piss off those players who have a large multiplier effect upon other players.

And, again, these "leeches" are an actual necessity in SOE's model. We who will pay will make the continents/worlds profitable for SOE. But the vast majority that you would qualify as "freeloaders" are the ones will assure that there are enough of these profitable worlds to justify SOE's long-term investment in this game.

I would not advocate a subscription mandate for outfit formation as it puts all the burden on the prospective leader. Remember, these will not necessarily be people who are PS1 vets and have been hanging around the boards for months/years prior to release.

I would not mandate station cash for starting up an outfit (in-game resources are ok, i think). I agree with those who advocate the concept of allowing the option of either station cash or in-game resources for tiering up an outfit beyond the first dozen players or so.

I think each of us, including SOE, will base their conclusions upon these 3 things:

1) How much revenue SOE will make off outfit fees.
2) How will these fees affect prospective low-/non-paying outfit leaders
3) The effect of said leaders' decisions upon their little group
4) What is the worth of a low-/non-paying player to game. Are they of negative worth because their resource hogs or are they of some value content-wise?

Personally, I think my outfit will benefit from the leftovers of the lesser outfits.

[Dart]

The more I think about this the more simple it becomes....

Outfit creation fees will cost Planetside players. Do you want that?

I'd rather see Outfits free to create and then charge for 'slots' over some predetermined number (10 lets say).

[Dagron]

Originally Posted by Arcticus

[Text Wall]

Mmm, well put...

[Yaguer]

I think it's a horrible day and make sure the casket is closed upon it.

Obstructing players from banding together in a massively war-based game stretching dozens of kilometers works against its grand concept of gameplay. Hinders it incredibly.

Honestly, if SONY did this with PS2, I'd say its disrespectful.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by Arcticus

This is an important thread due to its possible implications.

Let me start by saying that I'm in a large outfit and I'm old (by gaming standards) and am the target audience for both subscriptions and microtransactions.

I don't think one-time outfit fees are going to provide much revenue for SOE. I imagine that the price that would provide them maximum revenue is in the $10-$20...and closer to $10. Any higher than that, and only serious outfits will be formed. SO, what percentage of PS2's revenues would come from outfit fees? I imagine less than 1% of even the first year's revenue would be outfit fees. After the first year, dramatically less outfits will be formed.

But of those non-serious "jokefits" for whom this fee creates a decision as to whether players will remain in the game, I think maybe greater than 1% would be affected by this. Granted, these would not be the higher revenue players, these would be lower revenue and freebie players WHEN THEY FIRST START PLAYING PS2. But let's remember that freebie players aren't just leeches; in SOE's F2P model, these freebies are content. It's like an iceberg where those of us who pay are the visible part of the iceberg above the water line but we need that 9/10 that's under the surface to support us as content. If their numbers go down (or don't materialize), the game fails.

The experience of these particular players needs to be as free (moneywise) as possible in the very beginning..the equivalent of "1st month is free" on subscriptions. We should not be forcing these people into paying for an important part of their initial experience in the game.

Will a large portion of these free-to-create jokefits fail? Of course! Then they'll get recycled into other outfits, big and small. Are a lot of these outfits small groups that can make do with the functionality of a squad? Yes. But they want to make their own outfits. Realize, though, that this fee would hit the prospective young outfit leader more than the other members. Chances are this prospective leader wanted to be an outfit leader more than the others wanted to be outfit members. He wanted to spend time filling/naming ranks and all that. "So what?" Well, chances are that this non-serious joker, who obviously isn't as organized and dedicated as leaders of the bigger, more effective and experienced outfits, tends to have a bigger influence on whether his friends/coworkers will join or remain in the game. So the small one-time fees will have a tendency to piss off those players who have a large multiplier effect upon other players.

And, again, these "leeches" are an actual necessity in SOE's model. We who will pay will make the continents/worlds profitable for SOE. But the vast majority that you would qualify as "freeloaders" are the ones will assure that there are enough of these profitable worlds to justify SOE's long-term investment in this game.

I would not advocate a subscription mandate for outfit formation as it puts all the burden on the prospective leader. Remember, these will not necessarily be people who are PS1 vets and have been hanging around the boards for months/years prior to release.

I would not mandate station cash for starting up an outfit (in-game resources are ok, i think). I agree with those who advocate the concept of allowing the option of either station cash or in-game resources for tiering up an outfit beyond the first dozen players or so.

I think each of us, including SOE, will base their conclusions upon these 3 things:

1) How much revenue SOE will make off outfit fees.
2) How will these fees affect prospective low-/non-paying outfit leaders
3) The effect of said leaders' decisions upon their little group
4) What is the worth of a low-/non-paying player to game. Are they of negative worth because their resource hogs or are they of some value content-wise?

Personally, I think my outfit will benefit from the leftovers of the lesser outfits.

Wow iam impress sens come out of all this You explain it better but you think as i do

(( the free loaders )) are for us contents and they make our experience more enjoyable since we need to achive huge scales game

I kinda like the iceberg comparaison thats very true

Respect NC for life

[Baneblade]

Originally Posted by Stew

Outfits is needed since you have no way to join or know where your friends are ! Their is NO friendlist features so far in the game and no way to see where your friends are instead of having a (( groups )) call an OUTFITS

Who says there is no friends list in PS2?

I have no issue agains Smalls clans and smalls group of friends or even huge groups of friends FREEPLAYERS outfit creations !

Neither do I.

I dont want to (( controles )) others like some of you want !

Neither do I.

IAM an NC New conglomerate a free thinker !

So am I.

IAM An NC Not a opressor and i want people to be FREE to group up, to makes outfits with their friends and also not be bound in a single outfit just because they have paid for it and they do not want to merge with another just because they already paid for it !

I don't see the issue.

IAM An NC i have no issue agains those who dont have money to pay for the game or for the oufits creation and i dont judge them !

Everyone that has time to play can afford to pay.

I will pay for stuff in game i already spend 75 $ on the game and have 7500 station cash already and i want to spend those on cool cosmetic stuff embleme , decale , Mag , skins , camo , blingbling and so on !

Me too.

This is where i want to spend my money Not on my oufit creation , not on forcing others to pay to regroup or froce them to join my outfit because i have more money then them

Then you shouldn't be running an outfit. That is the bottom line, good leaders sacrifice for the greater good whether they get anything for it or not.

If people join my outfit its because they will like our mentality and skills thats all ! Not because i can afford an outfit creation

And people will join my outfit either way because we are fucking awesome.

Iam an NC for life Free thinker , and iam all for Free players who gonna make my play sessions better because they will ad spice to my game and Epic numbers !

k

[Dagron]

Originally Posted by Yaguer

Honestly, if SONY did this with PS2, I'd say its disrespectful.

Originally Posted by DjEclipse

There is an old saying, don't look a gift horse in the mouth.

I think both those approaches aren't right. You shouldn't lay back and let them do whatever they want to you just because it's free, but you should also resist the urge to demand everything you want for free (of course we're all gonna think the things we want are part of the game's core).

Originally Posted by Baneblade

Then you shouldn't be running an outfit. That is the bottom line, good leaders sacrifice for the greater good whether they get anything for it or not.

There's that hardcore philosophy again. Outfits shouldn't be created just by "good leaders", i say let people do their little casual outfits, otherwise there will be less people to play with (of course that problem won't be as serious as some people say it will, but it'd still be a bad thing).


Btw:

Originally Posted by Stew

You explain it better

That's a given, as every one of your posts make people's heads hurt. I admire your enthusiasm though.