Warning, very unpopular opinion! Why kill-cam desperately needs to return

[Ruffdog]

Ok new guys probably need to realise that they are unlikely to go anywhere they want tearing up ass. The order of the day when you're new, especially now with the large degree of vets, is to concentrate on support to build up certs to build fighting classes. I think a lot of complaints will be from people who enter a 1v1 and hardly ever come out on top. Kill cam probably won't help here.
And really how often do you die to snipers when infils can pack an smg? And if you die to one of those blighters you just gotta shrug.
Get them to look up YouTube. There are videos galore. Wrel, itzmurda, zoranthebear have put hundreds of hours of time into ps2 into helping you stay alive and get more from this game.


But we really don't want a killcam

[Ertwin]

Originally Posted by Rolfski

If BR 100's get killed, they just know 90% of the time what killed them and from what angle. They just hit enter and skip the kill-cam footage most of the time. For them, kill-cam is occasionally useful to sharpen the extra 1% on their skills. Newer players however, should relatively learn a lot more from it.

This entire thread is full of people saying that 90% of BR 100s will study the kill cams for tactical advantage. Meanwhile you're going, nope they'll just skip over it.

Perhaps listen to the experienced players. They know what they're talking about when they say the kill cam gives away too much information.

[Rolfski]

Originally Posted by Taramafor

Seriously? What you're talking about is adding a purely visual game mechanic and forcing people to cert into REMOVING it.

Your logic is false but also irrelevant because it's based on the effect of something that gets added afterwards. Guess what, they added scope sway afterwards to 6x and NV scope. They're going to add look-to-lock effects to Strikers. Tons of "negative" mechanics get added afterwards, it's called balancing. You might not like this particular mechanic (nobody liked the added scope sway as well) but at least the proposal here is to give you an option to bail out of it, therefore giving you a choice. You won't get that choice with the upcoming Striker changes.

The game's not that difficult. You do the tutorial. You drop pod. You have a gun. And if you get killed in a room and didn't see anyone, well I tell myself to check the corners.

Don't dumb down this game because you now better than this. Maybe everybody can fire a gun but getting your surroundings in this game is hard. Way too hard: Almost no predictable game flow, low TTK, fast battle shifting, extremely vertical, way too many angles of attack, extremely chaotic, insane amount of map content, etc. This game is a situational mess and does a very poor job of aiding/teaching players on a tactical level to make sense of it.

The only "learning curve" is all the stuff that gets certed into. But there's clear explanations of what weapons are good at.

If your really think that this is all the learning curve in the game, then you need get your self checked, seriously. I'm not even going to counter-argument on this one.

Trying to talk sense into you is like trying to explain to a 1 year old advanced math.

Keep it constructive pls or I won't even bother going into your comments.

Originally Posted by Baneblade

If I had access to a kill cam, I'd be studying the shit out of it every time and using that information to send more newbies footage of myself cutting through them like a hot knife through butter.

BR 100's already cut through newbies like a hot knife through butter. If they ever get killed by one, I doubt if kill-cam will learn them much from it.
Kill-cams give feedback to people who die. New players die a lot more and will therefore get a lot more feedback from kill-cams than BR100's.

If a BR100 dies, kill-cam will probably more often teach him on how to deal with somebody equally or better skilled, because that's likely the person who killed him.

Originally Posted by Taramafor

Thank you! Finally, proof that he's full of it and has no idea what he's talking about.

Fixed the original text for ya to make it more clear. If you have trouble keeping this discussion constructive, I suggest you bail out of it. This tone of voice doesn't add anything to a discussion that tries to address a serious issue in the game.

Originally Posted by Ruffdog

And really how often do you die to snipers when infils can pack an smg? And if you die to one of those blighters you just gotta shrug.
Get them to look up YouTube. There are videos galore. Wrel, itzmurda, zoranthebear have put hundreds of hours of time into ps2 into helping you stay alive and get more from this game.

As I told before, kill-cam is not about countering sniping, it's about improving situational awareness in general. I also explained that youtubes are not for casuals. This important target group for this game simply doesn't bother searching for them. If this game is not giving them a satisfactory sense of progression from all their numerous deaths IN the game, then they just bail out and SOE has lost another customer.

Originally Posted by Ertwin

This entire thread is full of people saying that 90% of BR 100s will study the kill cams for tactical advantage. Meanwhile you're going, nope they'll just skip over it.

Whether they check kill-cam footage or not doesn't matter for reasons I explained above.

Perhaps listen to the experienced players. They know what they're talking about when they say the kill cam gives away too much information.

I have learned a lot about some (not all of them) "experienced players" is this forum over the course of time. As much as they are passionate about this game, they also tend to be short-sighted and irrational about it. Case in point: Check my "evil" sig.

[Taramafor]

Originally Posted by Rolfski

Your logic is false but also irrelevant because it's based on the effect of something that gets added afterwards. Guess what, they added scope sway afterwards to 6x and NV scope. They're going to add look-to-lock effects to Strikers. Tons of "negative" mechanics get added afterwards, it's called balancing. You might not like this particular mechanic (nobody liked the added scope sway as well) but at least the proposal here is to give you an option to bail out of it, therefore giving you a choice. You won't get that choice with the upcoming Striker changes.

Weapons. Realism. No killcam in life. Etc. Oh wait, you said nothing in this game is realistic. How silly of me to use such logic.

As for your sig, it indicates you have a problem with zergs (which can be a problem at times) but nothing communication and listening on their part won't solve. I managed to rally a zerg to an area earlier when a base was in trouble which called for backup. We all had fun kicking NC dog butt (no offense guys) No camping there. No killcam. Moving from one base to another.

As for situational awareness, it's easy enough after fighting at a base enough times. One base will have terminals on a roof, another will have it indoors only. Killcam does not show this. Getting involved in a not too large fight in the area (or god forbid, NO fight) and scouting around does. I should know, I've done it. I've made an effort. I'm enjoying the game because of that effort (that REALISTIC effort I might add).

But of course only your opinion matters and you'll counter this at every turn. So with that I bid you good day. And good day to this thread. If I stay much longer I risk saying something I might not entirely regret.

[Baneblade]

Originally Posted by Rolfski

BR 100's already cut through newbies like a hot knife through butter. If they ever get killed by one, I doubt if kill-cam will learn them much from it.
Kill-cams give feedback to people who die. New players die a lot more and will therefore get a lot more feedback from kill-cams than BR100's.

If a BR100 dies, kill-cam will probably more often teach him on how to deal with somebody equally or better skilled, because that's likely the person who killed him.

Look, the bottom line is that a veteran player will understand what is in the kill cam far more than a newbie will. By the time the newbie knows what to do with what he is seeing, he is no longer a newbie and doesn't need the kill cam anyway.

You are trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist.

[Ghoest9]

Originally Posted by Baneblade

You are trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist.

No hes trying to fix a very specific problen.

One or a few of his friends wont play PS2 because there is no kill cam.

[Ghoest9]

And of course there is the issue that if you are frequently dying to sniper and ambushers - you kind of suck in general.

Dont stop moving - unless you are doing a specific task(like hacking) or you are trying to snipe yourself. but no one needs to snipe - its only marginally useful.

[Calista]

Can we get 3rd person infantry in the game also?

[GOLDENxEAGLE]

I gues it would be fun to see for theone who gets kill but not for the person if he tries to sneak around

[Baneblade]

Originally Posted by Ghoest9

No hes trying to fix a very specific problen.

One or a few of his friends wont play PS2 because there is no kill cam.

The best fix for that problem is to stop associating with the shallow end of the gene pool.

[Wahooo]

Originally Posted by Rolfski

Don't dumb down this game because you now better than this. Maybe everybody can fire a gun but getting your surroundings in this game is hard. Way too hard:

We need other ways of dumbing it down like kill cam.

Originally Posted by Rolfski

I have learned a lot about some (not all of them) "experienced players" is this forum over the course of time. As much as they are passionate about this game, they also tend to be short-sighted and irrational about it. Case in point: Check my "evil" sig.

or in other words... 'I write my opinion on teh internets so I am smarter than all of you trolls.'

[JohnnyRicardo]

Somehow I feel perfectly safe that we wont see any sort of kill-cam in this lovely game of ours.

[almalino]

If c'kill cam introduced only for newbies till rank 20 this still can be used by veterans. For example they will create a special low ranked character and join their squad just to inform them where the enemy is using kill cam.

[Rolfski]

Originally Posted by Taramafor

Weapons. Realism. No killcam in life. Etc. Oh wait, you said nothing in this game is realistic. How silly of me to use such logic.
As for your sig, it indicates you have a problem with zergs (which can be a problem at times) but nothing communication and listening on their part won't solve.

Which part of "Check my "evil" sig." didn't you understand?

As for situational awareness, it's easy enough after fighting at a base enough times. One base will have terminals on a roof, another will have it indoors only. Killcam does not show this. Getting involved in a not too large fight in the area (or god forbid, NO fight) and scouting around does.

With situational awareness I don't mean using kill-cam as a scouting-only tool to spot every place on the map. It's more about getting an idea about typical angles and situations people are getting the drop on you.

Originally Posted by Baneblade

You are trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist.

For you this doesn't exist as you obviously don't care about the ever increasing skill gap for newer players. Well maybe it's time to put down your short-sightedness and start caring, because in the end it will affect you as well.

Originally Posted by Wahooo

or in other words... 'I write my opinion on teh internets so I am smarter than all of you trolls.'

In other words, you need to start thinking before blindly raging on kill-cam. There are tons of different ways to implement this and the whole notion of "kill-cam completely destroying tactical play" is just a cultivated myth amongst COD/BF3 bashers that doesn't hold any ground.

Originally Posted by almalino

If c'kill cam introduced only for newbies till rank 20 this still can be used by veterans. For example they will create a special low ranked character and join their squad just to inform them where the enemy is using kill cam.

In that case it would be smarter for them to join the enemy with their alt-characters and exactly call out their position/movement/strength over TeamSpeak/Mumble to their outfit mates.

[Kail]

I do apologize if this has been brought up, I skimmed the thread. I don't think a kill-cam is useful because the situations in which it provides meaningful information are actually quite small.

Engagment sizes:

1. Small (6 people or less total): Useful
2. Medium (Around a squad or two): Could be useful
3. Large: Not very useful, too much incidental fire
4. Zerg (48+ each side): Not useful, too much incidental fire

Cause of death:

1. Infantry-died-to-vehicle: A kill-cam of the vehicle doesn't provide anything more useful than knowing you were hit by a dalton/prowler/harasser. Vehicles are already quite obvious
2. Vehicle-died-to-anything: Sure, I get some "wtf just hit me" moments, but by and large you're not confused about why your armor just exploded, and "the straw that broke the camel's bacK" is usually the least important shot there was from the perspective of figuring out what you did wrong or how to improve.
3. Infantry-died-to-infantry: Has some useful situations.

So the only really useful situations for a kill-cam is small to medium engagements of infantry. Which are the situations where stealth and tactics matter most, and what is hurt the most by a kill-cam.

I completely understand the frustration for new players trying to figure out what happened, but what you want to teach won't come from a death cam like it does in smaller FPS games. Something that would work a lot better would be to show your character, with red markers showing where and what damage hit you. Seeing you took 80% damage from the side via a grenade and then 1 headshot from the back gives the player far more feedback about -why- they died (or seeing that you got shot by 6 different people - probably a good indication you're standing somewhere out in the open)