Tank drivers acting as gunners in PS2 - Page 36

Warhound · 2012-03-11, 11:47 PM

Sure you can make that argument.

I guess I'm part of the recent CoD "generation" but honestly I understand how the vets want planetside to stay well... planetside. But honestly you cant just make sweeping claims of "The only games they have experience with are CoD,BF, and halo." I have experience and many people that I know of my age have experience with other types of games as well. Sure the majority may like games you listed but don't shoehorn us just into those. Besides don't be so hesitant to change, wait till beta to pass judgement.

kadrin · 2012-03-12, 01:19 AM

Originally Posted by Warhound

Sure you can make that argument.

I guess I'm part of the recent CoD "generation" but honestly I understand how the vets want planetside to stay well... planetside. But honestly you cant just make sweeping claims of "The only games they have experience with are CoD,BF, and halo." I have experience and many people that I know of my age have experience with other types of games as well. Sure the majority may like games you listed but don't shoehorn just into those. Besides don't be so hesitant to change, wait till beta to pass judgement.

I will wait til beta to make a final judgement, but seeing all the changes they're making, I would say I'm making a fair statement.

We're losing certs and getting classes.
We're losing Driver and Gunner roles and getting a Driver/Gunner and Second Banana.
We're losing inventory management and getting things like ammo drops.
We're losing Sanctuaries and getting Uncaps.

I'm sure there is a lot more we're losing as well that will be copied from games like Battlefield and CoD, but I'm not about to wade through all the info we know and post it. It's just looking less and less like Planetside 2 and more like Battlefield: Planetside Edition.

Derakarsis · 2012-03-12, 08:05 AM

Whats stopping the devs from adding in the option for the driver to relinquish control of the main gun to a passenger when they board? Seems like a compromise of sorts to me. If you have a dedicated gunner you just toss them control- if your friends aren't online to pick it up you can retain control and not be completely worthless by yourself. Seems like a reasonable trade?

Bags · 2012-03-12, 08:09 AM

Only problem with that dera is that the VS tank would be odd because the main gun doesn't rotate.

Pozidriv · 2012-03-12, 08:11 AM

Originally Posted by Bags

Only problem with that dera is that the VS tank would be odd because the main gun doesn't rotate.

Did they change the VS tank into a "tank destroyer" AKA turretless? Or are you talking about the hull mounted gun?

Derakarsis · 2012-03-12, 08:35 AM

Originally Posted by Bags

Only problem with that dera is that the VS tank would be odd because the main gun doesn't rotate.

Wasn't sure exactly how they were handling the Magrider yet.

Assuming there's not another way around this I really think this concept is worth a redesign. I feel like its important that the other person in the tank isn't just "Along for the ride". One of the reasons I'm still playing planetside today is because of the emphasis on multi-person vehicles.

Kipper · 2012-03-12, 08:39 AM

Personally, I'd go for having either multiple variants much like in real life, with options for one and two seaters of the air and ground vehicles - or make the vehicles so that they can be crewed effectively by one, but 'better' by two - teamwork should always be > rambo.

In a tank - for instance, realistically, its pretty hard to drive on anything except flat, open terrain whilst looking out of a rotated turret (unless you've got 3rd person view), but take 'World of Tanks' - it can be done. So a single crew could drive and operate his gun with some practice. He might prefer it.

Add a gunner, and the tank becomes more potent - it doesn't have any more speed or armour, but the driver has the ability to see where he's going and keep moving, while the gunner has a 360 degree aim and doesn't have to worry about where he's going, so he can concentrate on aimed shots. The driver could have access to other things, perhaps a front mounted machine gun that points where he's looking and fired on his command? Smoke and countermeasures? Radar?

Same with aircraft. Today we have aircraft that can be operated by a single pilot, you fly in, lock on, fire/release both unguided and guided weapons, and your chaingun shoots where you're looking.

If you add a second man to the aircraft and maybe he could take over the rocket pods and turn them by a few degrees, or maybe he could guide fly-by-wire missiles right to impact, and provide spotting. Makes the vehicle potentially more effective, as opposed to just effective.

I'd also like to see a laser designator as an infantry weapon, so that ground squads can operate behind enemy lines and call in swift, brutally accurate airstrikes from air squads onto specific targets.

moosepoop · 2012-03-12, 08:43 AM

i think letting the gunner use the main gun should still be considered for an alternate mode.

Highwind · 2012-03-12, 08:59 AM

Effectively every tank should have the ability to be a 3 seat tank like the classic PS1 Prowler if they want. With one person the driver controls the main gun and drives, with two people the same happens and the second person gets the custom loadout gun for AI/AV/AA roles, then if the driver toggles a interface option a third person can get in a take over the main gun from the driver. The interface toggle is there to prevent a 3rd person from stealing maingun control from the driver if the extra seat isn't wanted. This idea would give maximum flexibility for the few that want to use 3 people, but still allow one person to use their tank focused skill tree in a solo sense which might come up more often then we would like to admit (no one around to gun, playing at off hours, people just plain doing their own thing and not wanting to gun).

I remember using "looking for gunner" a lot in Planetside 1 and feeling worthless... at the same time I've been in a Teamspeak setup with a skilled driver/gunner and we changed battles with our combined efforts in a tank. I think PS2 should have the option to play both ways.

kadrin · 2012-03-12, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by Highwind

Effectively every tank should have the ability to be a 3 seat tank like the classic PS1 Prowler if they want. With one person the driver controls the main gun and drives, with two people the same happens and the second person gets the custom loadout gun for AI/AV/AA roles, then if the driver toggles a interface option a third person can get in a take over the main gun from the driver. The interface toggle is there to prevent a 3rd person from stealing maingun control from the driver if the extra seat isn't wanted. This idea would give maximum flexibility for the few that want to use 3 people, but still allow one person to use their tank focused skill tree in a solo sense which might come up more often then we would like to admit (no one around to gun, playing at off hours, people just plain doing their own thing and not wanting to gun).

I remember using "looking for gunner" a lot in Planetside 1 and feeling worthless... at the same time I've been in a Teamspeak setup with a skilled driver/gunner and we changed battles with our combined efforts in a tank. I think PS2 should have the option to play both ways.

You sir are a genius, and I hope the devs listen to you. That sort of option definitely needs to be in, then everyone is happy.

Figment · 2012-03-12, 09:57 AM

You can play both ways: get a damn Lightning if you can't find a gunner.

People should stop demanding they should be catered to if they can't even arrange a gunner. Which is the simplest of tasks.

Stop catering to lazy people!

Bags · 2012-03-12, 09:59 AM

Originally Posted by Highwind

Effectively every tank should have the ability to be a 3 seat tank like the classic PS1 Prowler if they want. With one person the driver controls the main gun and drives, with two people the same happens and the second person gets the custom loadout gun for AI/AV/AA roles, then if the driver toggles a interface option a third person can get in a take over the main gun from the driver. The interface toggle is there to prevent a 3rd person from stealing maingun control from the driver if the extra seat isn't wanted. This idea would give maximum flexibility for the few that want to use 3 people, but still allow one person to use their tank focused skill tree in a solo sense which might come up more often then we would like to admit (no one around to gun, playing at off hours, people just plain doing their own thing and not wanting to gun).

I remember using "looking for gunner" a lot in Planetside 1 and feeling worthless... at the same time I've been in a Teamspeak setup with a skilled driver/gunner and we changed battles with our combined efforts in a tank. I think PS2 should have the option to play both ways.

I agree. Options are good. Again, this would be weird for Magriders, but I'd love to see it for the other 2 faction tanks.

Gandhi · 2012-03-12, 10:03 AM

Originally Posted by Figment

You can play both ways: get a damn Lightning if you can't find a gunner.

I agree with this. The Lightning is the one man tank.

kadrin · 2012-03-12, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by Figment

You can play both ways: get a damn Lightning if you can't find a gunner.

People should stop demanding they should be catered to if they can't even arrange a gunner. Which is the simplest of tasks.

Stop catering to lazy people!

I agree, I would much rather have the weaker 1 man Lightning roaming about than MBTs with 1 person, but seeing as how they're pretty much set on making the game as accessible as possible for everyone, regardless of how detrimental it could be to gameplay, Highwinds suggestion seems to be a good compromise. Those who are actually willing to find gunners get rewarded by tanks that can accomplish more through teamwork.

Figment · 2012-03-12, 10:22 AM

I don't feel like compromising or accepting a compromise when gameplay is at risk just for the sake of catering to a few power hungry/lazy people.

The mere ability to have power on your own by gunning a stationary tank (so without being able to drive) would already be a huge compromise. Especially if this is done by switching seats internally. In PS1: be in the wrong seat of a stationary tank at the wrong time, get outmaneuvred as you should. That opponent of yours is a player too, he or she should not suffer from your convenience or leisure.

If you get strengths, you should get weaknesses to exploit too. Being able to switch at will between weaknesses/strengths by for example changing gun control is already a huge tactical advantage.