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Old 2012-03-01, 04:26 PM   [Ignore Me] #31
CidHighwind
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Re: PlanetSide as a Leadership Skill


As a highschool teacher and developing professional, I can vouch that students who take initiative and are able to see video games as more than just entertainment DO take more away from them than just the game.

I am that teacher who wants to know what everyone did over their weekend, and those students who say "played video games" I ask them what they learned from them. At first they thought I was mocking them, but once they realized that I was serious, they began looking for meaning. Even they were surprised by what they found. Leadership was one thing, but they also learned anger management, problem-solving skills, logic, deductive reasoning, intensive situational assessment, and one even said that a video game managed to help him save a relationship by rebonding his group of friends - and his significant other.

Video games NEED to begin being considered in the field of education. They mean more to students now than text-books ever have. They are interactive living, and everyone can tell you that living the experience is far better for learning that reading it from a book.
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Old 2012-03-01, 04:58 PM   [Ignore Me] #32
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Re: PlanetSide as a Leadership Skill


Originally Posted by L4G View Post
I had a mock interview as part of my foundation degree last year and Planetside Experience as outfit leader of one of Werners biggest TR outfits and experiences leading groups of 30+ individuals at towards the same goal was on my CV.

Got questioned about it and afterwards told it was an unusual thing to include but very relevant for the times we live in

NICE..
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Old 2012-03-01, 05:10 PM   [Ignore Me] #33
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Re: PlanetSide as a Leadership Skill


I think (or hope) all will agree that the best times we had in Planetside or games in general is when our team was well organized.

I ran with a small outfit for a few months on PS back in the day and it ruined me for every other squad, platoon, and outfit I was in afterward. We were tight. We all had extremely defined roles during Gal drops, specific positions while waiting for a base to turn, and many other small things we ALL had to take in.

Specifically, I remember our outfit leader calling a mandatory meeting in the sanctuary at a remote tower. We practiced attacking and defending, but worked on special instances like when someone died and waited for a medic. Our outfit leader told us where to stand and hold our guns while someone was revived. Then we tested it and one of the new recruits didn’t pay attention and pointed his gun toward the ground. Our outfit leader shot him on the spot. It was funny, but showed a level of devotion and commitment I never saw again in the game beyond that group. Gosh I hope the new one lives up to that for me.
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Old 2012-03-01, 05:14 PM   [Ignore Me] #34
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Re: PlanetSide as a Leadership Skill


Originally Posted by Mag View Post
Ha! This is actually my father's blog. He shot me an email this morning saying that he'd mentioned me in it. Glad you all enjoyed the read. Here's the article in its non-rehosted format.

http://eblingroup.com/2012/03/is-you...html#more-3157

At any rate, the outfit back in those days was Strength and Honour (We were NC on Markov, and I recognize more than a few names around here of outfits and folks we'd coordinate with pretty routinely).
SnH is still together, largely with the same base membership these days, though we've moved on to other games while waiting for PS2.
hahah! This is awesome. I was really wondering if it was someone here. Good stuff!
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Old 2012-03-01, 06:02 PM   [Ignore Me] #35
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Re: PlanetSide as a Leadership Skill


Originally Posted by EVILPIG View Post
This is why I hate it that players are always trying to think up ways to dumb down the game. We don't need automated systems to organize and in fact, it's a more beautiful thing when players pull together and coordinate on their own. My outfit organized platoons as three squads per platoon, each platoon in a squad channel. Player got on and got into the division they wanted to play on outfit channel. All of this was done long before the LFS system, the platoon system and SL Chat. I say don't put automated systems in and let the players decide how to succeed or fail amongst themselves. The real stars will rise and shine.
The innate issue with this is that at the end of the day it's also a game, and an enterprise for SOE. It still has to be fun and not frustrating. Or more specifically, if it is frustrating, it needs to be other players and the war itself that is the frustrating part, not the game's interface or any player tools.

What's the problem with a LFS list? What's the problem with targeting tools and waypoints and the different hack beam colors and all these things that "dumb down" the game? They don't make the game any easier to win, they just make it easier to organize a group, and that's the crux. The group itself still has to make itself rise above the rest, to truly shine; but there are people that play casually, remember, and not in highly organized outfits - and these people are expecting modern game interfaces and tools.

I for one agree that it's a beautiful thing when players organize themselves. To a certain point, no, we don't "need" these systems in place to organize. But why not have them? It's technology, it's advancement, it makes the dull administrative work easier on us so we can focus on the things that actually make the game and the war challenging and fun. I don't want to sit in sanc inviting members to my platoon manually when I can list three squads and get everyone into them in a matter of seconds.

I believe there is truly a difference between a game mechanic that "dumbs down the game" and a mechanic that makes the game better. Improving the interface and giving us organizational tools, in my opinion, makes the game better because it makes our experience better; it helps us quickly and efficiently find the information we need and carry out the administrative tasks necessary to running a squad/platoon/outfit/unit. Now, something that would "dumb down the game" would be something like auto-aim, or third person camera for everything, or a mine proximity sensor, or something like that. Whether you're in a squad you made yourself or a squad you listed doesn't really affect how the game plays out or who shoots what, that's still up to the outfits to determine through skill and a deeper level of organization than a squad list can provide, and that's the difference between good outfits and great outfits.

I think an outfit should be able to completely prove themselves through what they accomplish playing the game - it's certainly impressive to be able to organize without any of the tools given to us, but it's also highly inefficient and wastes time that could be better spent getting into the fight and enjoying the game.

---

Whoops. So, topic at hand, totally agreed on everything I see here about leadership. I put it on my resume, too...something like "Director of Operations for Online Community" or "Chief Administrator" or something. Video games are a very important method for today's youth (and not youth, for that matter) to experience personal relationships in a less intense and less consequential manner, and that's crucial. It lets one experiment and try things out that they'd be too shy or bashful or not confident enough to do in real life. If it works here on the internet without people laughing you off, it might work in real life to the same effect.
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Old 2012-03-01, 06:16 PM   [Ignore Me] #36
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Re: PlanetSide as a Leadership Skill


Another of many things to add to my "overqualified for entry-level jobs" list.

By many I mean 1.
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Old 2012-03-01, 06:21 PM   [Ignore Me] #37
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Re: PlanetSide as a Leadership Skill


I find this humorous,I started playing PS at the beginning(open beta) and managed to hijack every outfit that I joined,I have over 35 years in construction and I was the foreman or the lead man for most of that time due to the fact that I can think on my feet and didn't forget what I was being taught by the older guys I worked with.

dealing with ppl that you have no real physical contact or the ability to fire them is complex to say the least,you have to find like minded ppl that will "buy" into the fantasy of all of you being in combat together.

I do know that ppl do learn skills that are useful in the real world,I have a few guys that started playing with Ht when they were in high school and I rode them all the time about doing their goddamn homework and other crap their parents were on them about and had great results,every one of them either went on to college or have good jobs.

you can teach leadership skills to just about anyone,what really matters is if they have the balls to apply what they have learned.
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Old 2012-03-02, 12:10 AM   [Ignore Me] #38
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Re: PlanetSide as a Leadership Skill


Aw, that article reminds me of all the fiascos which are happening in S.Korea (between game industry and government, ya know)
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Old 2012-03-02, 12:55 AM   [Ignore Me] #39
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Re: PlanetSide as a Leadership Skill


Learned a ton from PS. Being part of a good outfit definitely helped my social skills in a variety of ways.
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Old 2012-03-02, 04:49 PM   [Ignore Me] #40
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Re: PlanetSide as a Leadership Skill


Originally Posted by IDukeNukeml View Post
So are you a manager or railroad operator? :P
I'm a project engineer working for a railroad construction company. Organizing, planning and directing construction crews is scarily similar to organizing a planetside raid or outfit (and they both require sometimes giving a swift kick in the ass).
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Old 2012-03-02, 04:55 PM   [Ignore Me] #41
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Re: PlanetSide as a Leadership Skill


Originally Posted by CidHighwind View Post
As a highschool teacher and developing professional, I can vouch that students who take initiative and are able to see video games as more than just entertainment DO take more away from them than just the game.

I am that teacher who wants to know what everyone did over their weekend, and those students who say "played video games" I ask them what they learned from them. At first they thought I was mocking them, but once they realized that I was serious, they began looking for meaning. Even they were surprised by what they found. Leadership was one thing, but they also learned anger management, problem-solving skills, logic, deductive reasoning, intensive situational assessment, and one even said that a video game managed to help him save a relationship by rebonding his group of friends - and his significant other.

Video games NEED to begin being considered in the field of education. They mean more to students now than text-books ever have. They are interactive living, and everyone can tell you that living the experience is far better for learning that reading it from a book.
Strategy games in general really do help to sharpen your mind. Especially when it comes to mathematics, geometry, engineering, etc. Some games are more beneficial than others, of course
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Old 2012-03-02, 04:57 PM   [Ignore Me] #42
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Re: PlanetSide as a Leadership Skill


Originally Posted by robocpf1 View Post
The innate issue with this is that at the end of the day it's also a game, and an enterprise for SOE. It still has to be fun and not frustrating. Or more specifically, if it is frustrating, it needs to be other players and the war itself that is the frustrating part, not the game's interface or any player tools.

What's the problem with a LFS list? What's the problem with targeting tools and waypoints and the different hack beam colors and all these things that "dumb down" the game? They don't make the game any easier to win, they just make it easier to organize a group, and that's the crux. The group itself still has to make itself rise above the rest, to truly shine; but there are people that play casually, remember, and not in highly organized outfits - and these people are expecting modern game interfaces and tools.

I for one agree that it's a beautiful thing when players organize themselves. To a certain point, no, we don't "need" these systems in place to organize. But why not have them? It's technology, it's advancement, it makes the dull administrative work easier on us so we can focus on the things that actually make the game and the war challenging and fun. I don't want to sit in sanc inviting members to my platoon manually when I can list three squads and get everyone into them in a matter of seconds.

I believe there is truly a difference between a game mechanic that "dumbs down the game" and a mechanic that makes the game better. Improving the interface and giving us organizational tools, in my opinion, makes the game better because it makes our experience better; it helps us quickly and efficiently find the information we need and carry out the administrative tasks necessary to running a squad/platoon/outfit/unit. Now, something that would "dumb down the game" would be something like auto-aim, or third person camera for everything, or a mine proximity sensor, or something like that. Whether you're in a squad you made yourself or a squad you listed doesn't really affect how the game plays out or who shoots what, that's still up to the outfits to determine through skill and a deeper level of organization than a squad list can provide, and that's the difference between good outfits and great outfits.

I think an outfit should be able to completely prove themselves through what they accomplish playing the game - it's certainly impressive to be able to organize without any of the tools given to us, but it's also highly inefficient and wastes time that could be better spent getting into the fight and enjoying the game.

---

Whoops. So, topic at hand, totally agreed on everything I see here about leadership. I put it on my resume, too...something like "Director of Operations for Online Community" or "Chief Administrator" or something. Video games are a very important method for today's youth (and not youth, for that matter) to experience personal relationships in a less intense and less consequential manner, and that's crucial. It lets one experiment and try things out that they'd be too shy or bashful or not confident enough to do in real life. If it works here on the internet without people laughing you off, it might work in real life to the same effect.
Simply put: a game should be easy to learn, but hard to master. And of course, fun. Strategy is king and planetside had plenty of it.
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Old 2012-03-02, 05:01 PM   [Ignore Me] #43
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Re: PlanetSide as a Leadership Skill


Originally Posted by HtSgtMAD View Post
I find this humorous,I started playing PS at the beginning(open beta) and managed to hijack every outfit that I joined,I have over 35 years in construction and I was the foreman or the lead man for most of that time due to the fact that I can think on my feet and didn't forget what I was being taught by the older guys I worked with.

dealing with ppl that you have no real physical contact or the ability to fire them is complex to say the least,you have to find like minded ppl that will "buy" into the fantasy of all of you being in combat together.

I do know that ppl do learn skills that are useful in the real world,I have a few guys that started playing with Ht when they were in high school and I rode them all the time about doing their goddamn homework and other crap their parents were on them about and had great results,every one of them either went on to college or have good jobs.

you can teach leadership skills to just about anyone,what really matters is if they have the balls to apply what they have learned.
This is %100 true. You also have to keep in mind that running an online community/guild/outfit requires you to motivate people WITHOUT financial incentives. I.E, I'm not paying you to play in my outfit and you can just leave if outfit management is shitty. If you think about- being a good outfit leader in planetside is a step up from being a middle level manager in some large corporation.

The "buy in" thing is also really important. It can be really difficult to incentivize people to be good leaders. But if you find the right people you can really build one hell of a team.
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Old 2012-03-02, 05:47 PM   [Ignore Me] #44
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Re: PlanetSide as a Leadership Skill


Originally Posted by Sardus View Post
This is %100 true. You also have to keep in mind that running an online community/guild/outfit requires you to motivate people WITHOUT financial incentives. I.E, I'm not paying you to play in my outfit and you can just leave if outfit management is shitty. If you think about- being a good outfit leader in planetside is a step up from being a middle level manager in some large corporation.

The "buy in" thing is also really important. It can be really difficult to incentivize people to be good leaders. But if you find the right people you can really build one hell of a team.
Lead by example.
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Old 2012-03-02, 09:02 PM   [Ignore Me] #45
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Re: PlanetSide as a Leadership Skill


It's worth pointing out that most people who lead outfits and stuff in video games are actually shitty, shitty leaders. So I dunno, maybe in-game leadership is in a way similar to real-life leadership, if only because so many people who are in leadership positions ought not to be.
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