Tank drivers acting as gunners in PS2

Graywolves · 2011-09-16, 08:50 AM

The impression I got was that it wouldn't be single-manned unless you did the customization to make it so.

Even if it's immediate, most lightning drivers go straight into trees so I see single-manned tanks as more of a disadvantage compared to one that is fully manned with a focused driver and gunners.

Draep · 2011-09-16, 09:04 AM

I don't think this is a great idea. Remember driving around a lightning? PS1 was the first game to have tank drivers focusing exclusively on driving to great effect. Also, I think this kills the manpower requirements of tanks. Tanks should require a lot of teamwork and you are right to be punished by allowing greenies to gun for you.

Also think of the manpower dynamics PS1 had. You could field a lot more full strength vanguards and magriders because they only had two seats. To get a full strength prowler you needed a whole other person which could weaken the numerical strength of the TR, but it made for a more powerful tank than the other two when used properly (though the magrider could outrange the prowler all day, but I remember if I could get in close or sneak up to them, I could kill them faster than they could run away.)

kaffis · 2011-09-16, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by Draep

I don't think this is a great idea. Remember driving around a lightning? PS1 was the first game to have tank drivers focusing exclusively on driving to great effect. Also, I think this kills the manpower requirements of tanks. Tanks should require a lot of teamwork and you are right to be punished by allowing greenies to gun for you.

Mostly this. I think it's very insightful to point out that PS1 was an exception in promoting "good" tank driving.

If you guys'll pardon me for copy/pasting my reply from the Interview thread on the topic...

I'm not willing to say that it's a make or break issue without playing what they're putting together, but I liked the two-man coordination that the MBTs (and, yes, Liberator) demanded to be effective. Did it suck to get stuck with a lousy gunner/driver/pilot? Sure. But that's not limited to vehicles. It sucks as a medic getting stuck with infantry that can't hit the broad side of the barn, too. That doesn't mean you get rid of support classes.

I like vehicles that require good coordination to be effective, and I like how that demand for higher degrees of participation (and staffing, if you will) provides a good balance point in exchange for high durability. Less than high durability, and, I would think, you start losing the right "feel" for a tank. And a one-man high durability vehicle with optional gunner seat (which makes me think like the prowler's 3rd seat) means you can run alone with 80% of a 2-man vehicle's effectiveness. Does that balance out? My gut says no, but I'm willing to wait and see before I bitch.

The logic does make sense, though. I cert the vehicle, I spend training time and resources on pimping it out, why should a random teammate get the gun? I'd rather see the gun and wheel separated, but have neither require the cert so long as one person in the vehicle is certed for it. That way, if you want to gun, you can pull your tank and climb in the gunner's seat and find a driver.

Goku · 2011-09-16, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by kaffis

The logic does make sense, though. I cert the vehicle, I spend training time and resources on pimping it out, why should a random teammate get the gun? I'd rather see the gun and wheel separated, but have neither require the cert so long as one person in the vehicle is certed for it. That way, if you want to gun, you can pull your tank and climb in the gunner's seat and find a driver.

I like! When I drove around I never had any random team mates. I always had a outfit member gunning for me, but most of the time it was my OL. He got to be quite a good shot and I was a good driver. We actually got into our own style of using the VG that was effective if you knew how to gun with my driving. Now a days anyone who gets in my VG cannot stand my driving, since I had a dedicated one must of the time lol. I do not have no major issues with upgrading a tank for a gunner due to that.

klu · 2011-09-16, 11:03 AM

they could simply make a gunner cert tree for any vehicle. the driver spends xp on the power or armor of the vehicle and the gunner spends xp on the power or versatility of the turret. share the xp spent and keep the teamwork element.

NewSith · 2011-09-16, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by klu

they could simply make a gunner cert tree for any vehicle. the driver spends xp on the power or armor of the vehicle and the gunner spends xp on the power or versatility of the turret. share the xp spent and keep the teamwork element.

Sounds good, but fails in practice.

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FIREk · 2011-09-16, 09:05 AM

Originally Posted by Graywolves

The impression I got was that it wouldn't be single-manned unless you did the customization to make it so.

Even if it's immediate, most lightning drivers go straight into trees so I see single-manned tanks as more of a disadvantage compared to one that is fully manned with a focused driver and gunners.

As far as I recall there weren't many trees in BF1942 and BF2, and you could mow down trees in BFBC2, so it wasn't a big problem there.

Tanks in PS2 will likely have two-axis turret stabilization, making driving them a bit less chaotic, than driving a PS1 Lightning, I think.

SgtMAD · 2011-09-16, 09:39 AM

I don't like it,it takes away from the teamwork aspect of the game.there is a commitment to team work when you cert armor and need a gunner,don't take that out of the game,its a dynamic that made PS work.

everyone complains about one man armies and SOE wants to make tanks a solo veh?

Logit · 2011-09-16, 09:41 AM

Originally Posted by HtSgtMAD

I don't like it,it takes away from the teamwork aspect of the game.there is a commitment to team work when you cert armor and need a gunner,don't take that out of the game,its a dynamic that made PS work.

everyone complains about one man armies and SOE wants to make tanks a solo veh?

I'd say if anything make them require more people, not less.

Isn't there going to be thousands of people in this game?