Tank drivers acting as gunners in PS2 - Page 37

Knocky · 2012-03-12, 11:15 AM

There is more the enough benefit in the current make up. I was initially against the driver's gunning but I have come around.

Everyone in the end will be infantry. The gunner slot on tanks will be a seat for infantry to get to the next battle. Which is better for moving 12 troopers? Six Vannys or one Sundy? BTW we will always have a Sundy with our armor column since they are so useful.

Now defending tanks might be screwed. They will have problems getting gunners....maybe....and if they don't get gunners then when the Lions tanks come over the hill fully armed and operational...then they are the next smoking wreck on the battlefield.

EVILPIG · 2012-03-12, 11:28 AM

You guys seriously need to wait for Beta.

Knocky · 2012-03-12, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by EVILPIG

You guys seriously need to wait for Beta.

Why? What is the difference between knee-jerk reaction then and knee-jerk reaction now? Neither one will be valid at either time.

EVILPIG · 2012-03-12, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by Knocky

Why? What is the difference between knee-jerk reaction then and knee-jerk reaction now? Neither one will be valid at either time.

At least people would have a frame of reference. Things that are geared to kill vehicles will kill them quickly. It's not like driving the PS1 vehicles as drivers/gunners. Also, perhaps "primary" and "secondary" are words that while correct, imply too much about the power of the weaponry. The secondary weapons will be quite powerful on their own and offer variety in their roles as well.

An easier way to picture this, balance wise, is to think of it like the current Magrider. Just call the nose gun the primary and the turret the secondary and you understand how it will be (turret aside).

Figment · 2012-03-12, 11:47 AM

So let me get this straight, "wait for beta" is not a knee jerk reaction way to shut up people from making a critique and leads to things being developed that need to be reverted later if possible at all and thus a waste of development time?

EDIT: Btw Knocky, your argument does not really seem to have any bearing on the in game situation. You claim that most will be infantry, but that will only be true if infantry is possible in field and is strong enough to deal with masses of vehicles. Which they won't, since not every infantry class will even have the ability to defend against vehicles by limiting AV to certain classes. And Evilpig, sorry but that's not true. The primary weapon for the driver is the secondary weapon on the current Magrider, ie. the one with most power. Confirmed by Higby. The current Magrider driver weapon is the secondary weapon. Our whole problem is around this switch around and adding the 'inverse' of the current Magrider setup to other tanks.

EDIT2: The current Magrider setup encourages a gunner to even get close to a good TTK. The new Magrider will mostly get a gunner because it will have to be rotating stationary to keep its primary weapon on target.

Waiting for beta just delays feedback that anyone with half a brain can derive from vehicle setup. Stop pretending a tank in PS2 will be wildly different from any other game where tanks are driven. You can easily derive how they will be used without even knowing what they look like.

If you know a tank has a fixed frontal gun, it will work like a TD. If it has a turret, then it will behave like a turret. If you know where the strongest weapons are located and their approximate relative strength, then you know all you need there is to derive and Beta will only confirm this.

Don't believe me on stationary Magrider firing? Go check any and I mean ANY image and video we've seen from a PS2 tank firing. Compare it to PS1. PS2 tanking will be very boring in contrast. Is that an improvement of gameplay?

EVILPIG · 2012-03-12, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by Figment

So let me get this straight, "wait for beta" is not a knee jerk reaction way to shut up people from making a critique and leads to things being developed that need to be reverted later if possible at all and thus a waste of development time?

EDIT: Btw Knocky, your argument does not really seem to have any bearing on the in game situation. You claim that most will be infantry, but that will only be true if infantry is possible in field and is strong enough to deal with masses of vehicles. Which they won't, since not every infantry class will even have the ability to defend against vehicles by limiting AV to certain classes. And Evilpig, sorry but that's not true. The primary weapon for the driver is the secondary weapon on the current Magrider, ie. the one with most power. Confirmed by Higby. The current Magrider driver weapon is the secondary weapon. Our whole problem is around this switch around and adding the 'inverse' of the current Magrider setup to other tanks.

Don't know why you come off as so worked up and you sound completely lost at what I said.

Figment · 2012-03-12, 12:13 PM

Evilpig, you say we don't have a frame of reference (lovely). But how can you say that? You don't apparently? That's your problem, don't speak for everyone else. I got plenty of tank experience and multiplayer experience to create a frame of reference perfectly valid for PS2 as I've played one man, two man and three men units. I know what their relative gameplay reasonings, strengths and weaknesses are. Plus we have had lots of information on PS2. All you said in that post, which I btw kinda took as "enlightening us ignorants who complain about this 'prematurely'", was stuff we already knew on page 1, while then providing a false analogy as you got what the primary and secondary weapons are and what a primary weapon means completely mixed up. You should know damn well the current Magrider's gun is a peashooter and not a primary weapon.

As most other PS vets, we utterly pwn in World of Tanks because of this pre-existing knowledge and experience.

But yeah, I do get worked up whenever people want to stick their heads into the sand and then try and force that behaviour on others. "Wait and see" is a bad, BAD attitude.

EVILPIG · 2012-03-12, 01:01 PM

Originally Posted by Figment

Evilpig, you say we don't have a frame of reference (lovely). But how can you say that? You don't apparently? That's your problem, don't speak for everyone else. I got plenty of tank experience and multiplayer experience to create a frame of reference perfectly valid for PS2 as I've played one man, two man and three men units. I know what their relative gameplay reasonings, strengths and weaknesses are. Plus we have had lots of information on PS2. All you said in that post, which I btw kinda took as "enlightening us ignorants who complain about this 'prematurely'", was stuff we already knew on page 1, while then providing a false analogy as you got what the primary and secondary weapons are and what a primary weapon means completely mixed up. You should know damn well the current Magrider's gun is a peashooter and not a primary weapon.

As most other PS vets, we utterly pwn in World of Tanks because of this pre-existing knowledge and experience.

But yeah, I do get worked up whenever people want to stick their heads into the sand and then try and force that behavior on others. "Wait and see" is a bad, BAD attitude.

You still completely missed it. The "primary" weapon of the Vanguard, Prowler or Magrider, won't necessarily be more powerful than the "secondary (passenger)" weapon system. That would match the current Magrider set up, being that the driver controlled weapon is not as powerful as the turret.

You're making some pretty gross assumptions as to why I made my comments and you're coming off as pretty immature. You can have a discussion without petty insults. After 37 pages of mud-slinging, yes, "wait for Beta". At least, wait for Beta before you get your panties in a bunch over a bunch of assumptions that you feel you are more qualified to make. State your opinion, not your emotion. As for World of Tanks, members of the team have played, amongst many other games, to draw some influence. I feel like they've really done their homework (in general) and can't wait to test it out.

PM me your WoT's info, I'd love to check your credentials (since you brought them up) and would consider playing with you.

Figment · 2012-03-12, 01:21 PM

Evilpig, Higby said the gunner weapon would be strong, but not as strong as the main cannon. That's enough information for me.

EDIT: I'm on the Euroserver, here are my stats:
http://wot-dossier.appspot.com/dossier/131001

Been consistent with a 54% and 53% winrate (2% draw) since I started playing, random matches only. I primarily play for the team, not so much for own kills, hence I got a pretty high scouting ratio. When I do play in platoons, it's usualy with a couple BrutalDeluxe, Delta Triad, Mercenarys and 1st HotDrop or Armored Fist players. Each of them has above average stats on virtually all units they play. Platooned, an evening's winratio of 75% is not uncommon, especially when we use higher tier tanks.

Knocky · 2012-03-12, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by Figment

EDIT: Btw Knocky, your argument does not really seem to have any bearing on the in game situation. You claim that most will be infantry, but that will only be true if infantry is possible in field and is strong enough to deal with masses of vehicles. Which they won't, since not every infantry class will even have the ability to defend against vehicles by limiting AV to certain classes.

When we run our Infantry, we pretty much kill the armor or there is enough armor that they physically run us down. Why? Punisher, that is why. Granted pure infantry generally can't get enough Rocklets to keep the Reavers off our backs if THEY show up in force.

But Armor? It is to laugh. Furthermore, Biffers are so pathetic against us it is not even worth a chuckle anymore.

We have seen carbines with grenade launcher attachments so hopefully our tactics will transfer over seemlessly if we can get EMP nade for the launcher.

Physed · 2012-03-12, 01:39 PM

I really like the idea of giving the driver the main gun, but then passing it to the gunner if/when they get one. When the driver has it, speed up the turret swivel, but lower the accuracy.

EVILPIG · 2012-03-12, 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by Figment

Evilpig, Higby said the gunner weapon would be strong, but not as strong as the main cannon. That's enough information for me.

EDIT: I'm on the Euroserver, here are my stats:
http://wot-dossier.appspot.com/dossier/131001

Been consistent with a 54% and 53% winrate (2% draw) since I started playing, random matches only. I primarily play for the team, not so much for own kills, hence I got a pretty high scouting ratio. When I do play in platoons, it's usualy with a couple BrutalDeluxe, Delta Triad, Mercenarys and 1st HotDrop or Armored Fist players. Each of them has above average stats on virtually all units they play. Platooned, an evening's winratio of 75% is not uncommon, especially when we use higher tier tanks.

Win % in pubs is not too relevant as you can kill 9 tanks and end up pitted against the last 6, but you do contribute to the win or loss, it's just not a good measure of a player. More important, but certainly not everything, is kills compared to # of battles, but still, you can do a lot of damage and not necessarily get a lot of kills. However, it is still important to look at, because if you do that damage consistently, the kills come with it. One stat that also has weight is survival % and of course accuracy (which can be drastically affected if you play arty). One has to look at the total package when judging a player, but as you stated, you like to scout, so that is not something that always shows up in stats. Shame to hear there are so many on EU as I play NA. Well, not shame for them, just shame we can't play our arsenals together. I do play with a handful of Markovians and we have a lot of fun.

Never seen that spreadsheet before, it's pretty simple and useful. Pretty cool that you can see the awards. Do you have to input it yourself?

Figment · 2012-03-12, 01:53 PM

Still got a positive K/D over matches. In some cases up to a good 2 kills per match.

Unlike a lot of players though, I know when to just stay put and leave the kill to artillery, for instance. I often will go and try to "turn heads" to make sure the rest of the team can pen them, by making a circle move. Quite funny when Lowes or IS4s etc start rotating their hulls to face a KV-3 or something else smaller while there's VK45s et all aiming for them.

Originally Posted by EVILPIG

Never seen that spreadsheet before, it's pretty simple and useful. Pretty cool that you can see the awards. Do you have to input it yourself?

When you want to create your own stats there, you have to upload the file in your user -> appdata -> roaming -> World of Tanks, then some file with a lot of random letters. Update this by uploading new versions (doesn't update automatically). Should have instructions somewhere on the site.

EVILPIG · 2012-03-12, 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by Figment

Evilpig, Higby said the gunner weapon would be strong, but not as strong as the main cannon. That's enough information for me.

EDIT: I'm on the Euroserver, here are my stats:
http://wot-dossier.appspot.com/dossier/131001

Been consistent with a 54% and 53% winrate (2% draw) since I started playing, random matches only. I primarily play for the team, not so much for own kills, hence I got a pretty high scouting ratio. When I do play in platoons, it's usualy with a couple BrutalDeluxe, Delta Triad, Mercenarys and 1st HotDrop or Armored Fist players. Each of them has above average stats on virtually all units they play. Platooned, an evening's winratio of 75% is not uncommon, especially when we use higher tier tanks.

Also, if I understand you, you are opposed to the current understanding that the driver will gun the main gun? And does WoT influence this position and how so?

I am interpreting that you are opposed to it, yet have success coordinating with other players in WoT?

EVILPIG · 2012-03-12, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by Figment

Still got a positive K/D over matches. In some cases up to a good 2 kills per match.

Unlike a lot of players though, I know when to just stay put and leave the kill to artillery, for instance. I often will go and try to "turn heads" to make sure the rest of the team can pen them, by making a circle move. Quite funny when Lowes or IS4s etc start rotating their hulls to face a KV-3 or something else smaller while there's VK45s et all aiming for them.

When you want to create your own stats there, you have to upload the file in your user -> appdata -> roaming -> World of Tanks, then some file with a lot of random letters. Update this by uploading new versions (doesn't update automatically). Should have instructions somewhere on the site.

There you go, now you're smiling!!