Ability to toggle 1st/3rd person - Page 4

cellinaire · 2012-04-11, 08:52 PM

Well, unlike many other things which got discussed here on this forum, 3rd PV modification for ground vehicles won't actually be that daunting or time-consuming for coders I think. So it's at least a relief

And yeah, it looks like they are giving air vehicles some special attractiveness this time by not allowing ground vehicles to have 3rd PV mode. I just had to imagine what it would be like to be a driver advancing through forest region... awwwwww I dread to think about that.

That one noob · 2012-04-11, 10:18 PM

http://twitter.com/#!/planetside2/st.../photo/1/large

3rd person for Vanguard (at least in testing)

CutterJohn · 2012-04-11, 11:41 PM

Originally Posted by Talek Krell

What I did often use third person for in tanks was claiming a frankly unfair advantage over anyone attempting to boomer or hack me by using that viewpoint to watch all sides of my vehicle simultaneously. It may be that you can exploit the camera in both vehicle types, but I think the problem would be far more common in ground than air vehicles.

No hacking in PS2, and I'm pretty sure infils will be able to toss c4 a bit. It won't be a weird planting mechanic.

Even if you do see them, by then, you'll have c4 attached to you. Plus $50 worth of cheapo cell phone cameras would give you 360 coverage anyway..

I really can't describe how important 3rd person driving is to me though. 1st person in vehicles makes me lose all sense of the vehicle and I'll constantly ram stuff because of the complete loss of peripheral vision. Thats no issue for infantry, turning is a flick of the wrist. Not true for vehicles.

I used 3rd person constantly as infantry to see what was coming. Every single backdoor i was behind a wall watching the door. I can't recall a single instance I used 3rd person for that in a ground vehicle, despite many dozens/hundreds of hours driving. It just wasn't useful like that. And it carried its own risks, since you were closer to mines before you saw them.. in an area with a high mine risk I always switched back to 1st person. And I did use it with DL until that got nerfed. Sorry cloakers!

Talek Krell · 2012-04-12, 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

No hacking in PS2, and I'm pretty sure infils will be able to toss c4 a bit. It won't be a weird planting mechanic.

I'm actually kind of hoping it's planted, though that's neither here nor there. The situation I got in PS1 was that a cloaker (or maybe just a softie) would attempt to interact with me, and I would immediately run them over. And while doing so amused me to no end, I can't necessarily say it was fair.

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

Plus $50 worth of cheapo cell phone cameras would give you 360 coverage anyway.

I was actually going to suggest something like that. It's not that I don't sympathize with the need for spatial awareness. I drove tanks, I've been there. I'd just like to think there's a better way to do it. Some sort of freelook? Maybe your perspective could be a rotating camera on top?

If the driver's view for tanks was a 3D cockpit with various instruments and a selection of view screens scattered around showing camera views of different sides of the vehicle I think I'd die from awesomeness, but that's probably a bit much to ask.

Destroyeron · 2012-04-12, 04:25 PM

Infantry hell no.
Vehicles yes.

I still wish they'd remove that retarded feature from PS1.

Blackwolf · 2012-04-12, 06:01 PM

Originally Posted by Metalsheep

How is it an unfair ability when EVERYONE can do it? Its not like only a few players can Third Person and make it overpowered. Any player, regardless of weapon, implant, armor or even if they were in a vehicle or not, could use Third Person the same way as anyone else. Not everyone can ADAD warp, or set up Router pads in exploitable ways.

What you use it for determines whether or not it's an unfair advantage. Again you are quick to point out that everyone can do it. Again I'm quicker to point out that this is exactly what made it a huge problem. It took 5 cert points, time, and a 3x3 block of inventory space to set a boomer. It takes less time, a 2x2 block of space for some jammers, and the push of a button to counter it. And you could counter it with 100% efficiency, something that should never occur period.

I see 3rd person as a tool, not an exploit. Its why it was left in the game. As a tool for all players to use. If you intentionally refuse to use Third Person for some arbitrary reason or another, you are purposely handicapping yourself and shouldnt complain when someone using the tools everyone has available to them, to beat you who wont use it. If it is being used as intended, then it is not being exploited.

It was left in the game because it had been in the game from the start and was so thoroughly cried over when the DEVs announced out of the blue that they were going to nerf it. Don't know if you were there for that flame fest but it made any discussion about BFRs look like professional debaters discussing a topic intelligently. It was a mess. Comparable to when the USA decided to ban alcohol, except in nerd forum chat style.

If the 3rd person cam is not for situational awareness, then why is it in game?

Situational awareness on a omnipotent level wasn't the intention. The DEVs themselves have stated this both back when they were discussing removing it, and now as a reason for not including it in PS2 at all for infantry.

To me, though. Why do aircraft get to be special and get 3rd person? When they can use it the exact same way an infantryman could in PS1, or the same way it was used by aircav in PS1. Hovering behind hilltops using 3rd person to spot targets or see if the coast was clear to go farm softies. Or to see where other aircraft are around you. If ground vehicles and infantry are limited to first person view and reliant on their Radar or other means of detection to know whats going on 280 degrees around them, then so should aircraft.

Third person for all vehicles, or for none at all.

That's what a lot of us are talking about now. We've all said that it's more exploitable for aircraft then vehicles.

Personally I think they should give drivers the ability to look around while driving in 1st person. They might have to add a button to disconnect the mouse from the steering system to do so in some vehicles, but buggies and other treaded vehicles in PS1 gave the pilot varying degrees of look-around space. Buggies were especially fun because you had the interior of the vehicle all around you so it actually looked like you were in a vehicle, I really hope that's included. If they did that then 3rdPV could be completely cut out of the game, without decreasing situational awareness.

Also I never had problems flying through forestry at full speed in 1stPV. But that was largely because of a relatively small wingspan of the aircrav aircraft in PS1. Liberators would likely have been a much bigger problem.

psychophonic · 2012-07-20, 02:56 PM

Since the beta phase is coming close i want to get some fresh wind into the dicussion
especially about 3rd person view for infantery... since since i saw Hamma using it with vehicles
in the beta walktrough tutorial i think this theme is from the table. Still open is the question:
shall drivers be gunners? I would prefer it like it is in the original that way you can actually focus
on where you driving while you gunner is focusing on having a good aim. 3 seats for the Prowler,
2 for the Vanguard and the Magrider driver can use a "weak" gun while the gunner got the maingun.

But back to the actual topic i have to say that i would be very sad if Infantery hasnt the ability to do it.
As an PS veteran im used to play all time in 3rd-person the only moment im not using it
is when i go into first person and start aiming on my opponent.

It made PS unique then other games in which i feel traped in tunnelview.

Another thing is the fear of people having total awareness or however someone called it,
but PS is all about total awareness! To proof this point i will give you some examples.

First at all there is the tactical overlay which gives you the ability to see the concentration
of enemy and friendly troops and if you are trained and used to read it you can make a
good guess of how many troops are in a specific kind of area on the map.

Second:PS is totally focused on using your radar properly that comes from the simply fact
that the Interlink facility benefit showed you every single red coming close to your base exception
people with sensor shield. Which brings up the question how cloakers will be in PS2 and
also how the radar will function in PS2. In the videos i saw the radar itself was always
very tiny in the corner and actually useless. In PS1 i have the radar maxed out either way
on meters i can look and also the actual size of the radar box itself!

And then the audioamplifier - it is "THE IMPLANT" it transforms your trooper into a little walking
interlink facility which always knows there is enemy near your position and when you got
knowlegde of the base layouts you would know (for example techplant) this dude must be either way
in the mainhall - in the airterm or on the roof of the station. Furthermore to know which position your
enemy is standing makes 3rd-person actually unnecessary.

It may be only my opinion but i think people that playing PS without audioamp are NOOBS.
And those might be the ones who were/are wining the most about jackhammer lamer.
For the record im TR and the MCG is the most awesome weapon in PS1 which makes
skilled players always supperior then noobhammer user.

Third: The ability to toggle beetween 3rd and 1st person view to not only camp corners but also
to not get caught from behind which comes the reality more near then the tunnelview of other fps
because in reality you will feel that something is coming from behind unless its sneaking on
what you are not doing in this games. It also gives you a better overview for you next steps.
For cloakers its most important to sneak trough enemy lines.

PS is a tactical shooter first at all - without tactics you will be very dead very soon.
Knowing whats behind the corner is necessary to play tactical.

Last but not least: Getting awareness of the sound that you are hearing like footsteps,
a cloaker that is pulling a knife/boomer right next to you (will be dead very fast).
If you played PS long enough you know every single sound, so you also know if there
was just someone pulling out his jackhammer his lasher his nade whatever.
This is something most people are used to from other games too.

I see 3rd-person as a feature that belongs to PS im so used to use it.
My Question is do we really need to copy from Battlefield and co. only because they are popular?
I didnt like the class system but its implemented in the game now and i dont see any chance
to get back the original cert system where you could be an cloaked adv med for example.
But we are not even in beta (we are close but...) so im suggesting to start a vote in this forum
to at least see how the people think about what seems to be already decided.

I also saw only 1 person who where pro about this theme and all others contra about it and i cant
believe that there is only 1 person execpt me that thought that it is a great feature and not an
exploit. Actually i think that you people that are against it played Cod, Moh, BF or similiar games
the last years while we veterans still fighting loyal for our faction nearly every day!

This brings us to the point that you guys are just not used to use 3rd-person in a first person shooter
and thats why you think its exploiting what it is not!

BTW i dont like other fps - TTK is way to fast - through the missing 3rd-person there is lag of tactics
and it most likely feels like who aims faster.

Night · 2012-07-20, 03:12 PM

3rd person view is cheap and boring. Its an exploit. You really cant see around corners, stop camping them.

Other features like interlink and audio amp are things you have to fight for, sacrifice things for and they can be taken away and run out of juice. Not comparable.

Why cant there be tactics without high TTK on infantry? Gun play is about reflexes and good aim. Thats skill based. Not who is in the better armor or has the better gun.

wasdie · 2012-07-20, 03:13 PM

Only for the vehicles. With the TTK being as low as it is, being able to look around corners without exposing your self would be a massive advantage.

It's really nice to have, but when you're game moves at the pace this one does, it's to much of an advantage.

Originally Posted by psychophonic

BTW i dont like other fps - TTK is way to fast - through the missing 3rd-person there is lag of tactics
and it most likely feels like who aims faster.

Then you're going to hate Planetside 2.

The TTK in Planetside 1 is silly though. It's a product of a time where latency wasn't what it is today.

typhaon · 2012-07-20, 03:19 PM

I understand the reasoning behind no 3rd person view in ground vehicles... I'm just not sure in practice it will be a lot of fun.

Of course... this wouldn't be such an issue really if they'd just go back to driver + gunner... not driver=gunner.

I'd think future tanks would have side cameras and whatnot anyway... since - uh... don't modern tanks have them right now?

Sifer2 · 2012-07-20, 03:22 PM

Personally I don't want third person at all. Even on Vehicles. It's damn sad to me that they pretty much confirmed 3rd person is staying on Air Vehicles. Cause there just went skillful dog fighting right out the window. Wont be able to suddenly brake or trick someone following you to get them off your tail now. They will just go third person, and get such a wide field of view they can easily track your movement an stay right on you.

That's the problem with third person. It's always better. Wider field of view gives you more information plain an simple. That's why competitive players in first person only games jack up their FOV setting as high as possible. You allow third person at any time, and your just giving the people that use it an unfair edge over those that don't. Higby an team at least seem to be trying to gimp it with camera shake so you can't use it for shooting.

But people are just going to adapt, and use first person the way people use Ironsights on guns. That is ride around 3rd person all the time to easily see everything then go into first to shoot at something like you would zoom in with an Ironsight. Just disappoints the hell out of me personally. I would love to have even one mainstream shooter where Drivers suffer the natural loss of awareness that real life Drivers/Pilots do. To give us more skill based vehicle combat.

Rabaan · 2012-07-20, 03:23 PM

Third: The ability to toggle beetween 3rd and 1st person view to not only camp corners but also
to not get caught from behind which comes the reality more near then the tunnelview of other fps
because in reality you will feel that something is coming from behind unless its sneaking on
what you are not doing in this games. It also gives you a better overview for you next steps.
For cloakers its most important to sneak trough enemy lines.

PS is a tactical shooter first at all - without tactics you will be very dead very soon.
Knowing whats behind the corner is necessary to play tactical.

Last but not least: Getting awareness of the sound that you are hearing like footsteps,
a cloaker that is pulling a knife/boomer right next to you (will be dead very fast).
If you played PS long enough you know every single sound, so you also know if there
was just someone pulling out his jackhammer his lasher his nade whatever.
This is something most people are used to from other games too.

if your worried about getting hit from behind then you need to check your six, you talk about tactics, there you go, your able to turn you character all the way around, and quickly, if you hear a sound, and look for cloakers, or other hostiles, its not that hard to do, as far as checking corners, there are 2 ways, 1) most fps games have a ''lean'' button, letting you lean to the left or right, very usefull for checking corners without giving a large target 2) you 'pie' the corner http://tgace.com/2009/08/19/tactical-preschool-4/ , real world tactics

Xyntech · 2012-07-20, 03:47 PM

If there are "bitter vets" who are upset with a lot of the changes from PS1 to PS2, I would tend to be the opposite. I've been bitter at the first Planetside in quite a few ways for a long time, ever since I stopped playing around the time BFR's came out.

3rd person view on infantry is one of many things that I've wanted to play a good MMOFPS without, so I'm thrilled that it has zero chance of ever making it into Planetside 2. Ever. It's simply not going to happen.

Doing it with some sort of camera would be fine, as long as a player had the potential to possibly spot the camera if they were keeping their eyes open. I'd actually love to see that kind of stuff.

Vehicles on the other hand, I'm more ambivalent about. I like some aspects of 3rd person and some aspects of forced 1st person.

In the end though, I really feel like it should be the same for aircraft and ground vehicles. I do feel that 3rd person is slightly more important for aircraft, due to aircrafts lower health, difficulty landing, difficulty maneuvering at high speeds, etc, but despite all of that I don't feel like aircraft deserve it that much more than land vehicles deserve it. Similarly, while I feel that it is slightly easier to exploit 3rd person with land vehicles vs with aircraft, I don't think the difference is large enough to be noteworthy.

Right now I think I'd lean a little more towards preferring that all vehicles have 3rd person. It's an option for vehicles in so many games because it's just awkward to drive in 1st person a lot of times. But either way, allowing one set of vehicles to have it and not another group is just silly. Vehicle 3rd person has never been even remotely as exploitable as 3rd person on infantry.

FPClark · 2012-07-20, 03:59 PM

I for one am against ANY 3rd person views...Honestly havnt had to switch yet.

Xyntech · 2012-07-20, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by FPClark

I for one am against ANY 3rd person views...Honestly havnt had to switch yet.

I would definitely still find this acceptable as well.

Slightly hard to drive your tank in forced 1st person? Great. Fuck aircaft though, they should have it just as hard. I say this as a pilot. Aircraft really don't deserve preferential treatment here. Make it the same, one way or the other. If you can learn to not crash into trees and rocks in a 1st person tank, you can learn to land a Galaxy in 1st person. Give them a tail cam and/or a floor cam if they really need a little extra help.